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Dear SIG members,
The proposal "prop-149: Change of maximum delegation for less than /21 total IPv4 holdings" has been sent to the Policy SIG for review.
It will be presented at the Open Policy Meeting (OPM) at APNIC 55 on Wednesday, 1 March 2023.
https://conference.apnic.net/55/program/schedule/#/day/10
We invite you to review and comment on the proposal on the mailing list before the OPM.
The comment period on the mailing list before the OPM is an important part of the Policy Development Process (PDP). We encourage you to express your views on the proposal:
- Do you support or oppose this proposal? - Does this proposal solve a problem you are experiencing? If so, tell the community about your situation. - Do you see any disadvantages in this proposal? - Is there anything in the proposal that is not clear? - What changes could be made to this proposal to make it more effective?
Information about this proposal is appended below as well as available at:
http://www.apnic.net/policy/proposals/prop-149
Regards, Bertrand, Shaila, and Anupam APNIC Policy SIG Chairs
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
prop-149-v001: Change of maximum delegation for less than /21 total IPv4 holdings
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Proposer: Shubham Agarwal (shubham8agar@gmail.com) Gaurav Kansal gaurav.kansal@nic.in
1. Problem statement -------------------- Over the last three years, no more than 8,00,000 IPv4 addresses have been reassigned in a single year.
Status of IPv4 Allocation by APNIC in 2022:
Available Pool: 2,593,792 IPv4 Address | about 5,066 Of /23 Reserved Pool: 1,702,144 IPv4 Address | about 3,300 Of /23
A sizable portion of the IPv4 pool is 'available+reserved' at APNIC. If APNIC continues to delegate /23 IPv4 at its current rate of 145 x /23 delegations per month, the pool will be depleted by the end of 2027.
This implies that a significant portion of the IPv4 address space will remain available or unallocated for an extended period of time, and that a sizable community may continue to face resource shortages.
This is a proposal to give APNIC account holders with fewer than /21 delegated IPv4 resources (i.e. fewer than 2,048 IPs) access to an additional /23 IPv4 address block.
2. Objective of policy change ----------------------------- According to the current IPv4 allocation policy, APNIC account holders are only qualified to receive IPv4 address delegations totaling a maximum of 512 (/23) from the APNIC 103/8 IPv4 address pool. The current minimum delegation size for IPv4 is 256 (/24) addresses. It is as per APNIC defined current minimum and maximum IPv4 delegation policy.
Thus, this proposal permits account holders to use an additional /23 if their total number of delegated IPv4 addresses is fewer than 2,048 (less than /21).
Due to the increase in the maximum IPv4 delegation size from 512 (/23) to 1024 (/23 + /23) address pool, the number of IPv4 address resources will increase for new and existing APNIC account holders with a total number of delegated IPv4 addresses less than 2,048 (less than /21).
3. Situation in other regions ----------------------------- Other RIR regions do not have a similar policy in place.
4. Proposed policy solution --------------------------- Current Policy text:
Since Thursday, 28 February 2019, each APNIC account holder is only eligible to receive IPv4 address delegations totaling a maximum /23 from the APNIC 103/8 IPv4 address pool.
Proposed Policy text:
New APNIC account holders are eligible to receive a maximum 1024 (/22) from the APNIC available IPv4 address pool. Current APNIC account holders with less than /21 total IPv4 resources, are eligible to recieve an additional /23 IPv4 delegation and must be requested. Account holders with total IPv4 resources equal to and more than /21 are not eligible for further IPv4 delegations.
This policy will be in effect till APNIC runs out of all IPv4 addresses.
5. Advantages / Disadvantages ----------------------------- Advantages: - This proposal allows for more IPv4 addresses to be received. - This proposal increases the total number of IPv4 addresses that can be made available to networks, developing nations, small and medium-sized businesses (SMBs), etc.
Disadvantages: - No disadvantages are foreseen.
6. Impact on resource holders ----------------------------- It increases the maximum size of a delegated address block available to some APNIC account holders who currently have limited IPv4 resources. NIR members will be affected in the same way as APNIC account holders.
7. References ------------- https://www.apnic.net/community/policy/resources#a_h_6_1
I would request authors to share the modeling/expected growth chart for /21 delegation for "ALL" members with less than 2048 v4 addresses and when will we run out of v4?
Regards,
Aftab A. Siddiqui
On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 at 11:23, Bertrand Cherrier b.cherrier@mynet.nc wrote:
Dear SIG members,
The proposal "prop-149: Change of maximum delegation for less than /21 total IPv4 holdings" has been sent to the Policy SIG for review.
It will be presented at the Open Policy Meeting (OPM) at APNIC 55 on Wednesday, 1 March 2023.
https://conference.apnic.net/55/program/schedule/#/day/10
We invite you to review and comment on the proposal on the mailing list before the OPM.
The comment period on the mailing list before the OPM is an important part of the Policy Development Process (PDP). We encourage you to express your views on the proposal:
- Do you support or oppose this proposal?
- Does this proposal solve a problem you are experiencing? If so, tell the community about your situation.
- Do you see any disadvantages in this proposal?
- Is there anything in the proposal that is not clear?
- What changes could be made to this proposal to make it more effective?
Information about this proposal is appended below as well as available at:
http://www.apnic.net/policy/proposals/prop-149
Regards, Bertrand, Shaila, and Anupam APNIC Policy SIG Chairs
prop-149-v001: Change of maximum delegation for less than /21 total IPv4 holdings
Proposer: Shubham Agarwal (shubham8agar@gmail.com) Gaurav Kansal gaurav.kansal@nic.in
- Problem statement
Over the last three years, no more than 8,00,000 IPv4 addresses have been reassigned in a single year.
Status of IPv4 Allocation by APNIC in 2022:
Available Pool: 2,593,792 IPv4 Address | about 5,066 Of /23 Reserved Pool: 1,702,144 IPv4 Address | about 3,300 Of /23
A sizable portion of the IPv4 pool is 'available+reserved' at APNIC. If APNIC continues to delegate /23 IPv4 at its current rate of 145 x /23 delegations per month, the pool will be depleted by the end of 2027.
This implies that a significant portion of the IPv4 address space will remain available or unallocated for an extended period of time, and that a sizable community may continue to face resource shortages.
This is a proposal to give APNIC account holders with fewer than /21 delegated IPv4 resources (i.e. fewer than 2,048 IPs) access to an additional /23 IPv4 address block.
- Objective of policy change
According to the current IPv4 allocation policy, APNIC account holders are only qualified to receive IPv4 address delegations totaling a maximum of 512 (/23) from the APNIC 103/8 IPv4 address pool. The current minimum delegation size for IPv4 is 256 (/24) addresses. It is as per APNIC defined current minimum and maximum IPv4 delegation policy.
Thus, this proposal permits account holders to use an additional /23 if their total number of delegated IPv4 addresses is fewer than 2,048 (less than /21).
Due to the increase in the maximum IPv4 delegation size from 512 (/23) to 1024 (/23 + /23) address pool, the number of IPv4 address resources will increase for new and existing APNIC account holders with a total number of delegated IPv4 addresses less than 2,048 (less than /21).
- Situation in other regions
Other RIR regions do not have a similar policy in place.
- Proposed policy solution
Current Policy text:
Since Thursday, 28 February 2019, each APNIC account holder is only eligible to receive IPv4 address delegations totaling a maximum /23 from the APNIC 103/8 IPv4 address pool.
Proposed Policy text:
New APNIC account holders are eligible to receive a maximum 1024 (/22) from the APNIC available IPv4 address pool. Current APNIC account holders with less than /21 total IPv4 resources, are eligible to recieve an additional /23 IPv4 delegation and must be requested. Account holders with total IPv4 resources equal to and more than /21 are not eligible for further IPv4 delegations.
This policy will be in effect till APNIC runs out of all IPv4 addresses.
- Advantages / Disadvantages
Advantages:
- This proposal allows for more IPv4 addresses to be received.
- This proposal increases the total number of IPv4 addresses that can be
made available to networks, developing nations, small and medium-sized businesses (SMBs), etc.
Disadvantages:
- No disadvantages are foreseen.
- Impact on resource holders
It increases the maximum size of a delegated address block available to some APNIC account holders who currently have limited IPv4 resources. NIR members will be affected in the same way as APNIC account holders.
- References
https://www.apnic.net/community/policy/resources#a_h_6_1
sig-policy - https://mailman.apnic.net/sig-policy@lists.apnic.net/ To unsubscribe send an email to sig-policy-leave@lists.apnic.net
I am extremely supportive of this. We have numerous IP resourcing requirements in the APNIC region and are unable to meet those resourcing needs currently which is resulting in us deploying assets in the ARIN region at a significant performance degradation to our users whose traffic must now flow from Australia to the USA for servicing.
Receiving further /23 delegations would allow us to service these customers in the APNIC region.
------------------------------
*Michael B. Williams * Glexia - An IT Company
Book a Meeting With Me https://calendly.com/glexia-michael-williams
USA Direct: +1 978 477 6797 USA Toll Free: +1 800 675 0297 x101 AUS Direct: +61 3 8594 2265 AUS Toll Free: +61 1800 931 724 x101 Fax: +1.815-301-5570
Michael.Williams@glexia.com Michael.Williams@secure.glexia.com (High-Security Correspondence) https://www.glexia.com/ Legal Notice: The information in this electronic mail message is the sender's confidential business and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee(s). Access to this internet electronic mail message by anyone else is unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it is prohibited and may be unlawful.
On Thu, Jan 19, 2023 at 9:27 PM Aftab Siddiqui aftab.siddiqui@gmail.com wrote:
I would request authors to share the modeling/expected growth chart for /21 delegation for "ALL" members with less than 2048 v4 addresses and when will we run out of v4?
Regards,
Aftab A. Siddiqui
On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 at 11:23, Bertrand Cherrier b.cherrier@mynet.nc wrote:
Dear SIG members,
The proposal "prop-149: Change of maximum delegation for less than /21 total IPv4 holdings" has been sent to the Policy SIG for review.
It will be presented at the Open Policy Meeting (OPM) at APNIC 55 on Wednesday, 1 March 2023.
https://conference.apnic.net/55/program/schedule/#/day/10
We invite you to review and comment on the proposal on the mailing list before the OPM.
The comment period on the mailing list before the OPM is an important part of the Policy Development Process (PDP). We encourage you to express your views on the proposal:
- Do you support or oppose this proposal?
- Does this proposal solve a problem you are experiencing? If so, tell the community about your situation.
- Do you see any disadvantages in this proposal?
- Is there anything in the proposal that is not clear?
- What changes could be made to this proposal to make it more
effective?
Information about this proposal is appended below as well as available at:
http://www.apnic.net/policy/proposals/prop-149
Regards, Bertrand, Shaila, and Anupam APNIC Policy SIG Chairs
prop-149-v001: Change of maximum delegation for less than /21 total IPv4 holdings
Proposer: Shubham Agarwal (shubham8agar@gmail.com) Gaurav Kansal gaurav.kansal@nic.in
- Problem statement
Over the last three years, no more than 8,00,000 IPv4 addresses have been reassigned in a single year.
Status of IPv4 Allocation by APNIC in 2022:
Available Pool: 2,593,792 IPv4 Address | about 5,066 Of /23 Reserved Pool: 1,702,144 IPv4 Address | about 3,300 Of /23
A sizable portion of the IPv4 pool is 'available+reserved' at APNIC. If APNIC continues to delegate /23 IPv4 at its current rate of 145 x /23 delegations per month, the pool will be depleted by the end of 2027.
This implies that a significant portion of the IPv4 address space will remain available or unallocated for an extended period of time, and that a sizable community may continue to face resource shortages.
This is a proposal to give APNIC account holders with fewer than /21 delegated IPv4 resources (i.e. fewer than 2,048 IPs) access to an additional /23 IPv4 address block.
- Objective of policy change
According to the current IPv4 allocation policy, APNIC account holders are only qualified to receive IPv4 address delegations totaling a maximum of 512 (/23) from the APNIC 103/8 IPv4 address pool. The current minimum delegation size for IPv4 is 256 (/24) addresses. It is as per APNIC defined current minimum and maximum IPv4 delegation policy.
Thus, this proposal permits account holders to use an additional /23 if their total number of delegated IPv4 addresses is fewer than 2,048 (less than /21).
Due to the increase in the maximum IPv4 delegation size from 512 (/23) to 1024 (/23 + /23) address pool, the number of IPv4 address resources will increase for new and existing APNIC account holders with a total number of delegated IPv4 addresses less than 2,048 (less than /21).
- Situation in other regions
Other RIR regions do not have a similar policy in place.
- Proposed policy solution
Current Policy text:
Since Thursday, 28 February 2019, each APNIC account holder is only eligible to receive IPv4 address delegations totaling a maximum /23 from the APNIC 103/8 IPv4 address pool.
Proposed Policy text:
New APNIC account holders are eligible to receive a maximum 1024 (/22) from the APNIC available IPv4 address pool. Current APNIC account holders with less than /21 total IPv4 resources, are eligible to recieve an additional /23 IPv4 delegation and must be requested. Account holders with total IPv4 resources equal to and more than /21 are not eligible for further IPv4 delegations.
This policy will be in effect till APNIC runs out of all IPv4 addresses.
- Advantages / Disadvantages
Advantages:
- This proposal allows for more IPv4 addresses to be received.
- This proposal increases the total number of IPv4 addresses that can be
made available to networks, developing nations, small and medium-sized businesses (SMBs), etc.
Disadvantages:
- No disadvantages are foreseen.
- Impact on resource holders
It increases the maximum size of a delegated address block available to some APNIC account holders who currently have limited IPv4 resources. NIR members will be affected in the same way as APNIC account holders.
- References
https://www.apnic.net/community/policy/resources#a_h_6_1
sig-policy - https://mailman.apnic.net/sig-policy@lists.apnic.net/ To unsubscribe send an email to sig-policy-leave@lists.apnic.net
sig-policy - https://mailman.apnic.net/sig-policy@lists.apnic.net/ To unsubscribe send an email to sig-policy-leave@lists.apnic.net
I would like to remind a couple of objectives of the present IPv4 delegation policy;
1. This will give the opportunity to get IPv4 delegation in the future of new startups or SMBs, especially from developing nations.
2. To encourage the implementation of IPv6 growth rate in the APNIC region.
Aside, the current delegations rate per month might be varied in the future by considering various factors so we would like to request to authors to share the expected growth model to validate the period to effect this type of policy till APNIC runs out of all IPv4 addresses.
Are we, APNIC members want to run out of all IPv4 addresses through we have available or unallocated IPv6 addresses for those who required additional IPv4 addresses?
Regards/Jahangir
On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 8:43 AM Michael B. Williams via sig-policy < sig-policy@lists.apnic.net> wrote:
I am extremely supportive of this. We have numerous IP resourcing requirements in the APNIC region and are unable to meet those resourcing needs currently which is resulting in us deploying assets in the ARIN region at a significant performance degradation to our users whose traffic must now flow from Australia to the USA for servicing.
Receiving further /23 delegations would allow us to service these customers in the APNIC region.
*Michael B. Williams * Glexia - An IT Company
Book a Meeting With Me https://calendly.com/glexia-michael-williams
USA Direct: +1 978 477 6797 USA Toll Free: +1 800 675 0297 x101 AUS Direct: +61 3 8594 2265 AUS Toll Free: +61 1800 931 724 x101 Fax: +1.815-301-5570
Michael.Williams@glexia.com Michael.Williams@secure.glexia.com (High-Security Correspondence) https://www.glexia.com/ Legal Notice: The information in this electronic mail message is the sender's confidential business and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee(s). Access to this internet electronic mail message by anyone else is unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it is prohibited and may be unlawful.
On Thu, Jan 19, 2023 at 9:27 PM Aftab Siddiqui aftab.siddiqui@gmail.com wrote:
I would request authors to share the modeling/expected growth chart for /21 delegation for "ALL" members with less than 2048 v4 addresses and when will we run out of v4?
Regards,
Aftab A. Siddiqui
On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 at 11:23, Bertrand Cherrier b.cherrier@mynet.nc wrote:
Dear SIG members,
The proposal "prop-149: Change of maximum delegation for less than /21 total IPv4 holdings" has been sent to the Policy SIG for review.
It will be presented at the Open Policy Meeting (OPM) at APNIC 55 on Wednesday, 1 March 2023.
https://conference.apnic.net/55/program/schedule/#/day/10
We invite you to review and comment on the proposal on the mailing list before the OPM.
The comment period on the mailing list before the OPM is an important part of the Policy Development Process (PDP). We encourage you to express your views on the proposal:
- Do you support or oppose this proposal?
- Does this proposal solve a problem you are experiencing? If so, tell the community about your situation.
- Do you see any disadvantages in this proposal?
- Is there anything in the proposal that is not clear?
- What changes could be made to this proposal to make it more
effective?
Information about this proposal is appended below as well as available at:
http://www.apnic.net/policy/proposals/prop-149
Regards, Bertrand, Shaila, and Anupam APNIC Policy SIG Chairs
prop-149-v001: Change of maximum delegation for less than /21 total IPv4 holdings
Proposer: Shubham Agarwal (shubham8agar@gmail.com) Gaurav Kansal gaurav.kansal@nic.in
- Problem statement
Over the last three years, no more than 8,00,000 IPv4 addresses have been reassigned in a single year.
Status of IPv4 Allocation by APNIC in 2022:
Available Pool: 2,593,792 IPv4 Address | about 5,066 Of /23 Reserved Pool: 1,702,144 IPv4 Address | about 3,300 Of /23
A sizable portion of the IPv4 pool is 'available+reserved' at APNIC. If APNIC continues to delegate /23 IPv4 at its current rate of 145 x /23 delegations per month, the pool will be depleted by the end of 2027.
This implies that a significant portion of the IPv4 address space will remain available or unallocated for an extended period of time, and that a sizable community may continue to face resource shortages.
This is a proposal to give APNIC account holders with fewer than /21 delegated IPv4 resources (i.e. fewer than 2,048 IPs) access to an additional /23 IPv4 address block.
- Objective of policy change
According to the current IPv4 allocation policy, APNIC account holders are only qualified to receive IPv4 address delegations totaling a maximum of 512 (/23) from the APNIC 103/8 IPv4 address pool. The current minimum delegation size for IPv4 is 256 (/24) addresses. It is as per APNIC defined current minimum and maximum IPv4 delegation policy.
Thus, this proposal permits account holders to use an additional /23 if their total number of delegated IPv4 addresses is fewer than 2,048 (less than /21).
Due to the increase in the maximum IPv4 delegation size from 512 (/23) to 1024 (/23 + /23) address pool, the number of IPv4 address resources will increase for new and existing APNIC account holders with a total number of delegated IPv4 addresses less than 2,048 (less than /21).
- Situation in other regions
Other RIR regions do not have a similar policy in place.
- Proposed policy solution
Current Policy text:
Since Thursday, 28 February 2019, each APNIC account holder is only eligible to receive IPv4 address delegations totaling a maximum /23 from the APNIC 103/8 IPv4 address pool.
Proposed Policy text:
New APNIC account holders are eligible to receive a maximum 1024 (/22) from the APNIC available IPv4 address pool. Current APNIC account holders with less than /21 total IPv4 resources, are eligible to recieve an additional /23 IPv4 delegation and must be requested. Account holders with total IPv4 resources equal to and more than /21 are not eligible for further IPv4 delegations.
This policy will be in effect till APNIC runs out of all IPv4 addresses.
- Advantages / Disadvantages
Advantages:
- This proposal allows for more IPv4 addresses to be received.
- This proposal increases the total number of IPv4 addresses that can be
made available to networks, developing nations, small and medium-sized businesses (SMBs), etc.
Disadvantages:
- No disadvantages are foreseen.
- Impact on resource holders
It increases the maximum size of a delegated address block available to some APNIC account holders who currently have limited IPv4 resources. NIR members will be affected in the same way as APNIC account holders.
- References
https://www.apnic.net/community/policy/resources#a_h_6_1
sig-policy - https://mailman.apnic.net/sig-policy@lists.apnic.net/ To unsubscribe send an email to sig-policy-leave@lists.apnic.net
sig-policy - https://mailman.apnic.net/sig-policy@lists.apnic.net/ To unsubscribe send an email to sig-policy-leave@lists.apnic.net
sig-policy - https://mailman.apnic.net/sig-policy@lists.apnic.net/ To unsubscribe send an email to sig-policy-leave@lists.apnic.net
As on date, total number of 24,75,008 IPv4 addresses (9668 number of /24 blocks) are available and 14,32,832 number of IPv4 addresses (5597 number of /24 blocks) are reserved as per stats available here - https://ftp.apnic.net/stats/apnic/delegated-apnic-20230124 . In last 4 years, the following number of /24 IP blocks were allotted —
1. 2019 — 10,86,464 (4244 IPv4 pools) 2. 2020 — 8,79,872 (3437 IPv4 pools) 3. 2021 — 11,52,256 (4501 IPv4 pools) 4. 2022 — 12,31,616 (4811 IPv4 pools)
On an average, 4248 number of /24 segments has been allotted by the APNIC in last 4 years. And with the current available and reserved pool, APNIC can easily allot the IP numbers with the current pace for next ~ 4 years (this doesn’t include the pools marked as historical ones). The proposed policy will help the smaller organizations (having allocation smaller than /21) to get more IP numbers from APNIC, whereas for members who already have chunk bigger than /21, have the option to go for the open market, if required.
This policy will not lead to hoarding and re-selling as existing APNIC policy doesn’t allow transfer/sale of new allocations for next years.
Hi Shubham, thanks for providing this data. though it doesn't answer my question.
As per your proposal, please list. 1. How many existing members will be eligible for extra IPv4 allocation? 2. How far back to go in the past to start allocating the extra IPv4 addresses to members who received less than /21? 3. Assuming everyone opted for a new allocation size, how long will these existing IPv4 addresses last?
You can use the extended delegation file to get the above answers. https://ftp.apnic.net/stats/apnic/delegated-apnic-extended-20230125
Regards,
Aftab A. Siddiqui
On Wed, 25 Jan 2023 at 09:48, Shubham Agarwal shubham8agar@gmail.com wrote:
As on date, total number of 24,75,008 IPv4 addresses (9668 number of /24 blocks) are available and 14,32,832 number of IPv4 addresses (5597 number of /24 blocks) are reserved as per stats available here - https://ftp.apnic.net/stats/apnic/delegated-apnic-20230124 . In last 4 years, the following number of /24 IP blocks were allotted —
- 2019 — 10,86,464 (4244 IPv4 pools)
- 2020 — 8,79,872 (3437 IPv4 pools)
- 2021 — 11,52,256 (4501 IPv4 pools)
- 2022 — 12,31,616 (4811 IPv4 pools)
On an average, 4248 number of /24 segments has been allotted by the APNIC in last 4 years. And with the current available and reserved pool, APNIC can easily allot the IP numbers with the current pace for next ~ 4 years (this doesn’t include the pools marked as historical ones). The proposed policy will help the smaller organizations (having allocation smaller than /21) to get more IP numbers from APNIC, whereas for members who already have chunk bigger than /21, have the option to go for the open market, if required.
This policy will not lead to hoarding and re-selling as existing APNIC policy doesn’t allow transfer/sale of new allocations for next years. _______________________________________________ sig-policy - https://mailman.apnic.net/sig-policy@lists.apnic.net/ To unsubscribe send an email to sig-policy-leave@lists.apnic.net
Hi Shubham, Aftab and all,
APNIC Secretariat can help provide this data. I can share it later today if that's OK with you?
Regards, Sanjaya
From: Aftab Siddiqui aftab.siddiqui@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, 25 January 2023 10:04 AM To: Shubham Agarwal shubham8agar@gmail.com Cc: sig-policy@lists.apnic.net Subject: [sig-policy] Re: prop-149-v001: Change of maximum delegation for less than /21 total IPv4 holdings
Hi Shubham, thanks for providing this data. though it doesn't answer my question.
As per your proposal, please list. 1. How many existing members will be eligible for extra IPv4 allocation? 2. How far back to go in the past to start allocating the extra IPv4 addresses to members who received less than /21? 3. Assuming everyone opted for a new allocation size, how long will these existing IPv4 addresses last?
You can use the extended delegation file to get the above answers. https://ftp.apnic.net/stats/apnic/delegated-apnic-extended-20230125
Regards,
Aftab A. Siddiqui
On Wed, 25 Jan 2023 at 09:48, Shubham Agarwal <shubham8agar@gmail.commailto:shubham8agar@gmail.com> wrote: As on date, total number of 24,75,008 IPv4 addresses (9668 number of /24 blocks) are available and 14,32,832 number of IPv4 addresses (5597 number of /24 blocks) are reserved as per stats available here - https://ftp.apnic.net/stats/apnic/delegated-apnic-20230124 . In last 4 years, the following number of /24 IP blocks were allotted -
1. 2019 - 10,86,464 (4244 IPv4 pools) 2. 2020 - 8,79,872 (3437 IPv4 pools) 3. 2021 - 11,52,256 (4501 IPv4 pools) 4. 2022 - 12,31,616 (4811 IPv4 pools)
On an average, 4248 number of /24 segments has been allotted by the APNIC in last 4 years. And with the current available and reserved pool, APNIC can easily allot the IP numbers with the current pace for next ~ 4 years (this doesn't include the pools marked as historical ones). The proposed policy will help the smaller organizations (having allocation smaller than /21) to get more IP numbers from APNIC, whereas for members who already have chunk bigger than /21, have the option to go for the open market, if required.
This policy will not lead to hoarding and re-selling as existing APNIC policy doesn't allow transfer/sale of new allocations for next years. _______________________________________________ sig-policy - https://mailman.apnic.net/sig-policy@lists.apnic.net/ To unsubscribe send an email to sig-policy-leave@lists.apnic.netmailto:sig-policy-leave@lists.apnic.net
Dear all,
The spreadsheet attached uses data from the delegated extended stats file Aftab mentioned below.
There are 19,365 IPv4 custodians that hold smaller than a /21. These include APNIC Members & Non-members, NIR Members, and historical holders. Assuming that all of them are eligible and submitted a valid additional /23 request, then APNIC will need 9,914,880 IPv4 addresses in its pool.
If we want to limit the eligibility to those who received allocation, say, after 28 February 2019 (the date we implemented prop-127 that limits delegation size to a /23), then the number of potential claimers goes down to 8,537 (= 4,370,944 IPv4 addresses)
Please note that the spreadsheet does not include IPv6/ASN only custodians that holds zero IPv4. If they are eligible, the potential claimer will increase by 882.
I hope this information helps in this policy proposal discussion.
Regards, Sanjaya
From: Aftab Siddiqui aftab.siddiqui@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, 25 January 2023 10:04 AM To: Shubham Agarwal shubham8agar@gmail.com Cc: sig-policy@lists.apnic.net Subject: [sig-policy] Re: prop-149-v001: Change of maximum delegation for less than /21 total IPv4 holdings
Hi Shubham, thanks for providing this data. though it doesn't answer my question.
As per your proposal, please list. 1. How many existing members will be eligible for extra IPv4 allocation? 2. How far back to go in the past to start allocating the extra IPv4 addresses to members who received less than /21? 3. Assuming everyone opted for a new allocation size, how long will these existing IPv4 addresses last?
You can use the extended delegation file to get the above answers. https://ftp.apnic.net/stats/apnic/delegated-apnic-extended-20230125
Regards,
Aftab A. Siddiqui
On Wed, 25 Jan 2023 at 09:48, Shubham Agarwal <shubham8agar@gmail.commailto:shubham8agar@gmail.com> wrote: As on date, total number of 24,75,008 IPv4 addresses (9668 number of /24 blocks) are available and 14,32,832 number of IPv4 addresses (5597 number of /24 blocks) are reserved as per stats available here - https://ftp.apnic.net/stats/apnic/delegated-apnic-20230124 . In last 4 years, the following number of /24 IP blocks were allotted -
1. 2019 - 10,86,464 (4244 IPv4 pools) 2. 2020 - 8,79,872 (3437 IPv4 pools) 3. 2021 - 11,52,256 (4501 IPv4 pools) 4. 2022 - 12,31,616 (4811 IPv4 pools)
On an average, 4248 number of /24 segments has been allotted by the APNIC in last 4 years. And with the current available and reserved pool, APNIC can easily allot the IP numbers with the current pace for next ~ 4 years (this doesn't include the pools marked as historical ones). The proposed policy will help the smaller organizations (having allocation smaller than /21) to get more IP numbers from APNIC, whereas for members who already have chunk bigger than /21, have the option to go for the open market, if required.
This policy will not lead to hoarding and re-selling as existing APNIC policy doesn't allow transfer/sale of new allocations for next years. _______________________________________________ sig-policy - https://mailman.apnic.net/sig-policy@lists.apnic.net/ To unsubscribe send an email to sig-policy-leave@lists.apnic.netmailto:sig-policy-leave@lists.apnic.net
Thanks Sanjaya/Secretariat for the quick response.
So it's a bad idea.
Regards,
Aftab A. Siddiqui
On Wed, 25 Jan 2023 at 17:55, Sanjaya Sanjaya sanjaya@apnic.net wrote:
Dear all,
The spreadsheet attached uses data from the delegated extended stats file Aftab mentioned below.
There are 19,365 IPv4 custodians that hold smaller than a /21. These include APNIC Members & Non-members, NIR Members, and historical holders. Assuming that all of them are eligible and submitted a valid additional /23 request, then APNIC will need 9,914,880 IPv4 addresses in its pool.
If we want to limit the eligibility to those who received allocation, say, after 28 February 2019 (the date we implemented prop-127 that limits delegation size to a /23), then the number of potential claimers goes down to 8,537 (= 4,370,944 IPv4 addresses)
Please note that the spreadsheet does not include IPv6/ASN only custodians that holds zero IPv4. If they are eligible, the potential claimer will increase by 882.
I hope this information helps in this policy proposal discussion.
Regards,
Sanjaya
*From:* Aftab Siddiqui aftab.siddiqui@gmail.com *Sent:* Wednesday, 25 January 2023 10:04 AM *To:* Shubham Agarwal shubham8agar@gmail.com *Cc:* sig-policy@lists.apnic.net *Subject:* [sig-policy] Re: prop-149-v001: Change of maximum delegation for less than /21 total IPv4 holdings
Hi Shubham, thanks for providing this data. though it doesn't answer my question.
As per your proposal, please list.
How many existing members will be eligible for extra IPv4 allocation?
How far back to go in the past to start allocating the extra IPv4
addresses to members who received less than /21?
- Assuming everyone opted for a new allocation size, how long will these
existing IPv4 addresses last?
You can use the extended delegation file to get the above answers. https://ftp.apnic.net/stats/apnic/delegated-apnic-extended-20230125
Regards,
Aftab A. Siddiqui
On Wed, 25 Jan 2023 at 09:48, Shubham Agarwal shubham8agar@gmail.com wrote:
As on date, total number of 24,75,008 IPv4 addresses (9668 number of /24 blocks) are available and 14,32,832 number of IPv4 addresses (5597 number of /24 blocks) are reserved as per stats available here - https://ftp.apnic.net/stats/apnic/delegated-apnic-20230124 . In last 4 years, the following number of /24 IP blocks were allotted —
- 2019 — 10,86,464 (4244 IPv4 pools)
- 2020 — 8,79,872 (3437 IPv4 pools)
- 2021 — 11,52,256 (4501 IPv4 pools)
- 2022 — 12,31,616 (4811 IPv4 pools)
On an average, 4248 number of /24 segments has been allotted by the APNIC in last 4 years. And with the current available and reserved pool, APNIC can easily allot the IP numbers with the current pace for next ~ 4 years (this doesn’t include the pools marked as historical ones). The proposed policy will help the smaller organizations (having allocation smaller than /21) to get more IP numbers from APNIC, whereas for members who already have chunk bigger than /21, have the option to go for the open market, if required.
This policy will not lead to hoarding and re-selling as existing APNIC policy doesn’t allow transfer/sale of new allocations for next years. _______________________________________________ sig-policy - https://mailman.apnic.net/sig-policy@lists.apnic.net/ To unsubscribe send an email to sig-policy-leave@lists.apnic.net
In my opinion, if this policy proposal or policies similar to it are enforced, it will simply continue to push for IPv4-only (or majority) network deployments, that will only put further strain on the already strained IPv4 resources.
This proposal does not accomplish any of the following: 1. Promoting end-to-end IPv6 support. 2. Deploying IPv6-only backbone (whether small, medium, or large sized companies) 3. Encourage the use of technologies such as BGP unnumbered/IPv6 next-hop in the backbone, for IPv4 routing, to limit the wastage of IPv4 addressing in a network. 4. Use of translation mechanisms like 464xlat etc. Which can easily span a /24 across multiple cities/sites by having a centralised NAT64 gateway or similar. 5. Using IPv4 smartly, via strategic usage of RFC1918 for PTP or multipoint interfaces in the backbone and then simply routing a /32 to each device for loopback, instead of wasting a /31 or /30 per link.
I have seen first-hand accounts via authorised admin access to various networks across the world on how people actually make use of the strained IPv4 resources, from inefficient subnetting and architecture plan to using /30s or larger for a simple PTP link instead of a /31, even if the underlying equipment supports it (or simply use point 5 idea as above).
If an org, does need additional pools, they are free to lease out/buy out from other orgs in the open market. If they can't afford to do so, then they better start gearing up on IPv6 end-to-end since day one.
I do not see how this proposal or policies similar to it, is going to help promote an IPv6-majority internet. For various technical reasons above and then some, I am against this proposal.
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Secretariat Impact Assessment
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APNIC notes this proposal suggests increasing the maximum IPv4 delegation size for new APNIC account holders from a /23 to a /22 and, if requested, delegating an additional /23 for current APNIC account holders with less than a total of a /21 of IPv4 addresses. Current APNIC account holders with a total amount of IPv4 addresses equal to and more than a /21 are not eligible for further IPv4 delegations.
APNIC believes that the eligibility criteria for this proposal are unclear and raises the following concerns:
1. The proposal assumes that all IPv4 addresses marked as reserved can be delegated to the account holders. However, some of these addresses are reserved for specific policy and these cannot be delegated under this proposal. For example, a /21 IPv4 address space is reserved for experimental allocations.
2. There is a risk that current account holders who have already transferred IPv4 address space from their account may use this proposal to request additional IPv4 addresses for market transfers. The same could happen to new account holders in the future.
3. The proposed solution will create disparity among account holders. Current account holders who have received /22 + /23 + /24 are eligible for another /23 under this proposal, bringing their total to /21 + /24. At the same time, current account holders with a total IPv4 addresses equal to or greater than /21 are not eligible. It is unclear why new account holders will be eligible for a maximum of /22, whereas current account holders who already have a /22 will be eligible for an additional /23.
4. Please note that the recent data shared by the Secretariat on the Policy SIG mailing list shows that if all current members with less than /21 request additional address space under this proposal, APNIC's entire IPv4 free pool would be depleted, and a waiting list may have to be created.
https://orbit.apnic.net/hyperkitty/list/sig-policy@lists.apnic.net/thread/VR...
This proposal makes no mention of the current policy which states that IPv4 addresses delegated from the available pool cannot be transferred for a minimum of five years after the initial delegation. However, if this proposal is accepted by the community, it will be subject to this restriction.
To address some of these concerns, APNIC recommends that the authors and community simplify the proposal. A suggested proposed solution is as follows:
--- New APNIC account holders are eligible for a maximum of /## IPv4 addresses from the APNIC available pool.
Current APNIC account holders are eligible to request an additional /## Ipv4 delegation (provided the total Ipv4 addresses holding is not exceeding /##) from the APNIC available pool, provided the applicant meets these terms: • No IPv4 addresses have been transferred out of the account holder’s account since joining APNIC. • According to the current policy, IPv4 addresses delegated under this proposal cannot be transferred for a minimum of five years after the original delegation.
This policy will remain in effect until APNIC has exhausted all available IPv4 addresses. Following that, requests will be placed in the first-come-first-served waiting list to delegate IPv4 addresses as they become available, with no guarantees. ---
If this proposal reaches consensus and is endorsed by the EC, implementation will require changes to systems, procedures, and service level agreements. The Secretariat also believes a likely rush by Members to apply for additional IPv4 space will mean additional staff will need to be recruited and trained to handle a high volume of requests in a short period of time. For these reasons, implementation may be completed in eight to nine months.
Regards, Sunny
Dear Colleagues,
I am Satoru Tsurumaki from Japan Open Policy Forum Steering Team.
I would like to share key feedback in our community for prop-149, based on a meeting we organised on 15th Feb to discuss these proposals.
Negative opinion were expressed on this proposal.
(comment details) - IPv4 addresses do not have to be used up. What is the problem if they are kept dead for 4 years?
- Since the last IPv4 delegation was originally intended for transition to IPv6, there would be no need to change the delegation size if that had not changed.
- We should go back to the original purpose of ipv4 delegation. It was to encourage players such as newcomers to organize IPv6 network. To do this, they need a certain amount of ipv4 in IPv6 NW. So we should keep ipv4 in pool until we no longer need to use ipv4.
Regards,
Satoru Tsurumaki / JPOPF Steering Team
2023年1月20日(金) 9:23 Bertrand Cherrier b.cherrier@mynet.nc:
Dear SIG members,
The proposal "prop-149: Change of maximum delegation for less than /21 total IPv4 holdings" has been sent to the Policy SIG for review.
It will be presented at the Open Policy Meeting (OPM) at APNIC 55 on Wednesday, 1 March 2023.
https://conference.apnic.net/55/program/schedule/#/day/10
We invite you to review and comment on the proposal on the mailing list before the OPM.
The comment period on the mailing list before the OPM is an important part of the Policy Development Process (PDP). We encourage you to express your views on the proposal:
- Do you support or oppose this proposal?
- Does this proposal solve a problem you are experiencing? If so, tell the community about your situation.
- Do you see any disadvantages in this proposal?
- Is there anything in the proposal that is not clear?
- What changes could be made to this proposal to make it more effective?
Information about this proposal is appended below as well as available at:
http://www.apnic.net/policy/proposals/prop-149
Regards, Bertrand, Shaila, and Anupam APNIC Policy SIG Chairs
prop-149-v001: Change of maximum delegation for less than /21 total IPv4 holdings
Proposer: Shubham Agarwal (shubham8agar@gmail.com) Gaurav Kansal gaurav.kansal@nic.in
- Problem statement
Over the last three years, no more than 8,00,000 IPv4 addresses have been reassigned in a single year.
Status of IPv4 Allocation by APNIC in 2022:
Available Pool: 2,593,792 IPv4 Address | about 5,066 Of /23 Reserved Pool: 1,702,144 IPv4 Address | about 3,300 Of /23
A sizable portion of the IPv4 pool is 'available+reserved' at APNIC. If APNIC continues to delegate /23 IPv4 at its current rate of 145 x /23 delegations per month, the pool will be depleted by the end of 2027.
This implies that a significant portion of the IPv4 address space will remain available or unallocated for an extended period of time, and that a sizable community may continue to face resource shortages.
This is a proposal to give APNIC account holders with fewer than /21 delegated IPv4 resources (i.e. fewer than 2,048 IPs) access to an additional /23 IPv4 address block.
- Objective of policy change
According to the current IPv4 allocation policy, APNIC account holders are only qualified to receive IPv4 address delegations totaling a maximum of 512 (/23) from the APNIC 103/8 IPv4 address pool. The current minimum delegation size for IPv4 is 256 (/24) addresses. It is as per APNIC defined current minimum and maximum IPv4 delegation policy.
Thus, this proposal permits account holders to use an additional /23 if their total number of delegated IPv4 addresses is fewer than 2,048 (less than /21).
Due to the increase in the maximum IPv4 delegation size from 512 (/23) to 1024 (/23 + /23) address pool, the number of IPv4 address resources will increase for new and existing APNIC account holders with a total number of delegated IPv4 addresses less than 2,048 (less than /21).
- Situation in other regions
Other RIR regions do not have a similar policy in place.
- Proposed policy solution
Current Policy text:
Since Thursday, 28 February 2019, each APNIC account holder is only eligible to receive IPv4 address delegations totaling a maximum /23 from the APNIC 103/8 IPv4 address pool.
Proposed Policy text:
New APNIC account holders are eligible to receive a maximum 1024 (/22) from the APNIC available IPv4 address pool. Current APNIC account holders with less than /21 total IPv4 resources, are eligible to recieve an additional /23 IPv4 delegation and must be requested. Account holders with total IPv4 resources equal to and more than /21 are not eligible for further IPv4 delegations.
This policy will be in effect till APNIC runs out of all IPv4 addresses.
- Advantages / Disadvantages
Advantages:
- This proposal allows for more IPv4 addresses to be received.
- This proposal increases the total number of IPv4 addresses that can be
made available to networks, developing nations, small and medium-sized businesses (SMBs), etc.
Disadvantages:
- No disadvantages are foreseen.
- Impact on resource holders
It increases the maximum size of a delegated address block available to some APNIC account holders who currently have limited IPv4 resources. NIR members will be affected in the same way as APNIC account holders.
- References
https://www.apnic.net/community/policy/resources#a_h_6_1
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