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prop-086: Global policy for IPv4 allocations by the IANA post exhaustion _______________________________________________________________________
Dear SIG members
Below is a summary of discussions on the proposal to date. We encourage you to continue discussions on the mailing list before Thursday's Policy SIG.
Regards,
Randy, Ching-Heng, and Terence
Proposal summary ----------------
With the depletion of the IANA free pool of IPv4 address space, the current policy regarding the allocation of IPv4 address space to the RIRs will become moot. The RIRs may, according to their individual policies and procedures, recover IPv4 address space. This policy provides a mechanism for the RIRs to retro allocate the recovered IPv4 address space to the IANA and provides the IANA the policy by which it can allocate it back to the RIRs on a needs basis. This policy creates a new global pool of IPv4 address space that can be allocated where it is needed on a global basis without a transfer of address space between the RIRs.
Discussion statistics ---------------------
Posted to Policy SIG mailing list: 23 July 2010
Number of posts since proposal first posted: 5
Number of people participating in discussions: 3
Summary of discussion to date -----------------------------
- It was asked if there was an incentive for RIRs to return space to IANA.
- It was asked why there was a need to have ongoing distribution of IPv4.
- There were questions asking for clarification on:
- How RIRs would receive space from IANA's Reclamation Pool
- The reason for not permitting transfers of reclaimed space once IANA has distributed it to RIRs.
Full details of the proposal, including links to previous discussions, can be found at:
prop-086: Global policy for IPv4 allocations by the IANA post exhaustion
i can not help but comment on this masterpiece of hypocrisy. it is worthy of a museum exhibit.
arin believes that folk in the arin region should return unused space to arin, where they got it. but they seem unable to induce that arin, in turn, should return the unused space to the iana, whence arin got it.
the proposal would lead one to believe that returned space would be equally shared between rirs. but actually, only one rir will exhaust their resources at a time, meaning that the entire pool of returned space would be given to that rir. and, as arin has no final /8 or whatever policy, just guess which rir that will be.
the arin lot claim to have rewritten the proposal to make it more fair. by fair, they seem to think that they should end up with space from other rirs, and also dictate other rirs' policies by banning transfers of reclaimed resources that are distributed back to rirs. meaning prop-050 can't be applied to any theoretical space apnic got from iana via this arin proposal.
rirs which want to have strong policies for their final space get last access to returned space. one would think that prudent practices would be rewarded, not penalized.
in particular, apnic's last /8 policy means apnic would be at the end of the line for any returned space.
i strongly discourage adoption of this policy
randy, about to be ex-chair
--
ps: amusing that the authors have not even had the manners to respond to direct questions on list
On Aug 23, 2010, at 10:47 PM, Randy Bush wrote:
prop-086: Global policy for IPv4 allocations by the IANA post exhaustion
ps: amusing that the authors have not even had the manners to respond to direct questions on list
Please allow me to apologize to everyone for the lack of response to the questions posed on list. I was waiting for input from the other authors prior to responding on list, and was planning to discuss the topics with Izumi-san and Philip further upon my arrival in Gold Coast on Wednesday. This proved to be poor judgement on my part: early response and discussion on list would have been preferable. (This was the idea behind posting a first draft of the policy proposal for early input prior to formal submission.) Also my travel was canceled due to circumstances beyond my control. I only ask forgiveness from the community for my decisions, and I hope that my actions do not overly tarnish the merits of this global policy proposal.
There has been much effort and expense put into the crafting and presentation of this global policy proposal. It requires much more time and work than 5 times that of a single regional policy proposal in that it now has the attention of ICANN and governments around the world. It also has the attention of those organizations seeking to undermine the efforts of the IP community and the stewardship principles on which our policies are based.
I will address the questions on list immediately.
Louie
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 02:47:48PM +0900, Randy Bush wrote:
prop-086: Global policy for IPv4 allocations by the IANA post exhaustion
i can not help but comment on this masterpiece of hypocrisy. it is worthy of a museum exhibit.
arin believes that folk in the arin region should return unused space to arin, where they got it. but they seem unable to induce that arin, in turn, should return the unused space to the iana, whence arin got it.
ARIN has already return address space recently. It's not impossible that it will happen again.
It is also possible that non-RIR entities will attempt to return space directly to IANA of any size. If IANA receives this space, than the proposal would provide a framework for redistribution.
the proposal would lead one to believe that returned space would be equally shared between rirs. but actually, only one rir will exhaust their resources at a time, meaning that the entire pool of returned space would be given to that rir. and, as arin has no final /8 or whatever policy, just guess which rir that will be.
ARIN has set aside a /10 to provide for transition mechanism.
the arin lot claim to have rewritten the proposal to make it more fair. by fair, they seem to think that they should end up with space from other rirs, and also dictate other rirs' policies by banning transfers of reclaimed resources that are distributed back to rirs. meaning prop-050 can't be applied to any theoretical space apnic got from iana via this arin proposal.
If you would, please review the answers we've provided to Philip on this same topic.
rirs which want to have strong policies for their final space get last access to returned space. one would think that prudent practices would be rewarded, not penalized.
in particular, apnic's last /8 policy means apnic would be at the end of the line for any returned space.
As just answered to both Izumi-san and Philip, we would entertain changes to this global policy proposal. Some feedback already provided us include the idea that address space under soft landing policies would not be considered when determining whether an RIR has exhausted its free pool. Along with that, minimum allocation sizes for soft landing policies would not be used in decided the size of address blocks that IANA would use to evenly distribute addresses to eligible RIRs.
Open to discussion, of course.
Best Regards, Louie
On 8/25/10 6:23 PM, "Louis Lee" louie@louie.net wrote:
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 02:47:48PM +0900, Randy Bush wrote:
prop-086: Global policy for IPv4 allocations by the IANA post exhaustion
[ snip ]
the proposal would lead one to believe that returned space would be equally shared between rirs. but actually, only one rir will exhaust their resources at a time, meaning that the entire pool of returned space would be given to that rir. and, as arin has no final /8 or whatever policy, just guess which rir that will be.
ARIN has set aside a /10 to provide for transition mechanism.
There's that and there is also an effort to shorten that to a /8 as well as tighten up requirements for the assignment of it. It's unlikely that the last /8 and beyond will be assigned in any manner familiar to us today.
There were counter-proposals on the ARIN PPML list. Those parties, I'm part of one group making a final /8 proposal, are currently attempting to combine their needs into a single policy so that we can potentially achieve adoption of the same in the ARIN region.
Im not positive that you're correct about one RIR exhausting at a time and I could use your help to understand that view. That might occur early on and we recognized that in the beginning things might not be perfectly even. As depletion deepens from a time perspective, RIR's are unlikely to receive an allocation and then become ineligible and all are likely to be eligible at the same time and permanently until v6 transition has overtaken v4 and we start seeing returns exceed demand and RIR's stop asking for allocations from the proposed assignment pool.
Best Regards,
-M<
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 02:47:48PM +0900, Randy Bush wrote:
prop-086: Global policy for IPv4 allocations by the IANA post exhaustion
i can not help but comment on this masterpiece of hypocrisy. it is worthy of a museum exhibit.
I have no comment on the merits of "prop-086: Global Policy for IPv4 allocations by the IANA post exhaustion"
arin believes that folk in the arin region should return unused space to arin, where they got it. but they seem unable to induce that arin, in turn, should return the unused space to the iana, whence arin got it.
However, for purposes of clarity, it is ARIN's practice is to return address space to the IANA, but the ARIN community expressed concern with making the return of space to the IANA a mandatory policy while there are RIR's which have abandoned needs-based allocation address policies who would also be drawing from the returned address space pool.
Thank you, /John
John Curran President and CEO ARIN
arin believes that folk in the arin region should return unused space to arin, where they got it. but they seem unable to induce that arin, in turn, should return the unused space to the iana, whence arin got it.
ARIN has already return address space recently. It's not impossible that it will happen again.
the policy proposal needs to be read as it stands, not backfilled with excuses.
It is also possible that non-RIR entities will attempt to return space directly to IANA of any size.
and it is possible that cash will fall from the sky and pigs will fly.
As just answered to both Izumi-san and Philip, we would entertain changes to this global policy proposal.
arin is the only rir which did not pass the original one. so just change this proposal to be that passed by the rest of the entire world.
randy
On Aug 26, 2010, at 10:22 AM, Randy Bush wrote:
arin believes that folk in the arin region should return unused space to arin, where they got it. but they seem unable to induce that arin, in turn, should return the unused space to the iana, whence arin got it.
ARIN has already return address space recently. It's not impossible that it will happen again.
the policy proposal needs to be read as it stands, not backfilled with excuses.
It is also possible that non-RIR entities will attempt to return space directly to IANA of any size.
and it is possible that cash will fall from the sky and pigs will fly.
ARIN is presently working with parties who have little used address space and plan to return it in the next 3 to 6 months (yes, they are aware of the potential monetary value but want to do the right thing for the Internet community.)
In other words, I believe that there will be IPv4 address space returned to the IANA which will would be more easily reissued if there is some form of global policy for that purpose. Any of the global policies that have been discussed would suffice for this purpose, and this is not any endorsement for any specific one.
FYI only on the probability of need for such a policy, /John
John Curran President and CEO ARIN
Activity Summary
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