Re: [sig-policy] Policy SIG Proposal - HD ratio for IPv4 allocations
Thanks very much for your comments, I introduced them on our
mailing list for futher discussions.
I have added my comments inline for some clarifications.
From: Anne Lord <anne at apnic dot net>
Subject: RE: [sig-policy] Policy SIG Proposal - HD ratio for IPv4 allocations
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 21:26:20 +1000 (EST)
>
> Hi Izumi,
>
> > Let me introduce some of the discussions we had in JP about the
> > proposal. The general vibes so far is that there are no strong support
> > for the proposal.
> >
>
> Thanks very much for the feedback, very useful. I have tried to answer
> some of the feedback - in the hope that this is useful to the discussion.
>
> >
> > Comments received on our mailing list are:
> >
> > * Support the concept of considering heirachical management, but
> > concerned that utilization rate may be too low for large
> > allocations
> >
>
> If there is support and acknowledgement that hierarchical management
> imposes an overhead in 'efficiency' of managing the address space, then
> this is agreement with the basic premise of the proposal and an
> implicit acknowledgement that there is a problem with the current system.
Yes, I think it is true that LIRs in Japan will be happy if the
current utilization rate is lowered.
One of the large ISPs however later clarified that they do not
necessarily support the HD-ratio itself as long as the current
utilization is lowered. It was also mentioned that there is no major
problem with the current utilization rate as long as 80% is not a
rigid rule.
In the other words, as long as they can receive sufficient IP address
at the end of the day, it does not have to be HD-ratio.
> > I understand that there may be concern regarding the utilisation rate
> > in the proposal but this is meant to be a realistic measure of what is
> > possible. However, having said this in IPv6 the HD ratio value is 0.8,
> > in IPv4 it is proposed at 0.96 which is much more conservative. It could
> > be placed at a value which is yet more conservative.
OK.
> >
> > * The idea of HD-ratio is conceptualistic. It does not necessarily
> > match the actual operation and it is difficult to judge if it is an
> > appropriate way to measure utilization
> >
>
> The logarithmic model and values used actually show a gradual decrease
> in efficiency, the larger and more complex the network. This is central
> to the proposal - the gradual decrease in "efficiency", the larger the
> network.
>
> If you accept that there is an overhead imposed on hierarchically managed
> address space then the question becomes what model fit this best?
> It has been observed that the logarithmic model is a good one (when compared
> to all others). Given this, I am not sure how a fixed utilisation fits,
> given that this implies a linear relationship - where there is no allowance
> made for overhead imposed by the hierarchy of managing a larger address
> block?
This person does not agree that large ISPs are disadvantaged due to
the hierarchical management of address space(he is from one of the
large ISPs in Japan).
He thinks it is case by case, and you can't tell if HD-ratio(or any
other utilization) matches the actual practice, and what is important
is to ensure some flexibility in operations.
He later clarified that although he does not actively support the
proposal, he is not against it as long as it helps APNIC and the AP
community.
>
> > * Subsequent allocation rate should be considered in terms of how
> > much free address space should be secured in order to accmodate
> > customer increase between making an allocation request and
> > receiving the actual allocation.
> >
>
> I dont understand this comment. Could you explain it a bit more please?
> I thought the subsequent allocate rate was considered, in that if you
> are using the address space quickly, you will receive a larger subsequent
> allocation.
The idea behind this comment is a little different from your point.
Some LIRs in JP consider utilization rate as a scheme to allow some
buffer(free pool) to make sure LIRs have enough address space between
submitting a request(i.e, meeting the defined utilization rate) and
receiving an allocation. If this buffer is too small, they would ran
out of address space while making a subsequent allocation request.
This person was pointing out that small ISPs have a smaller buffer, so
they would have less capacity to accomodate service expansions during
the request(even if the rate of increase is the same as large LIRs),
so pershaps, you cannot simply say that it is only large LIRs who are
disadvantaged.I hope this clarified the point.
FYI, there are no further comments on this on our mailing list, so it
is not necessarily representative of JP situation.
> >
> > It could be possible that ISPs with small allocations also have
> > problems as they have less capacity to accomodate large increase in
> > the number of subscribers. How about applying a flat rate with
> > lower percentage? (No comments on this suggestion from the others)
> >
>
> Applying a flat rate with a lower percentage basically rejects the
> premise of the proposal. It is unecessarily lenient to smaller guys and
> does not change address the problem with the larger networks.
I understand your point, I have explained it on our mailing list
again.
> >
> > * It disadvantages star-up ISPs when conditions are not consistent in
> > areas which cannot be improved by efforts, such as service quality,
> > price, etc
> >
>
> I'm not sure how i can answer this except by saying that in the current
> situation the feedback to the Secretariat has been that those with larger
> networks feel they are disadvantaged.
OK. I've also explained this on the mailing list.
> >
> > I think the general feeling at the moment is that there are no strong
> > opposition about reviewing the current utilization rate, but not sure
> > why HD-ratio should be applied(the concept already explained).
> >
> >
> Okay I understand.
>
> >
> > I have asked on our ML yesterday whether there is anybody who would
> > have a problem if HD-ratio is *NOT* applied, and there are no comments
> > on this yet.
> >
> >
> Thanks Izumi. It would be helpful to ask too if anyone has a problem
> if it is applied.
I had already asked this on the mailing list, but no comments until
now.
My comments so far may give the impression that JP community is agaist
applying HD-ratio in IPv4, but this is not the case - it's just that
no strong needs to apply HD-ratio in IPv4 were expressed, even from
large LIRs.
However, if the rest of AP community are in needs to implement this
policy, we do not oppose it.
Best Regards,
Izumi
> Anyways thank you for the feedback and I look forward to hearing more.
>
> Best wishes,
> Anne
> --
>
> >
> >
> > To confirm the situation, do large ISPs in the rest of AP consider
> > they would be strongly disadvantaged and have a problem if HD-ratio is
> > NOT applied, or would it meet their needs by simply lowering the flat
> > utilization rate?
> >
> > I note from Paul's explanation that some LIRs in the region are having
> > problems with the current rate and I do see that this should be
> > addressed in some way.
> >
> > I would like to know what is the difference in the situation between
> > JP and the rest of the region.
> >
> >
> > Izumi
> > JPNIC
> >
> >
> > From: APNIC Secretariat <secretariat at apnic dot net>
> > Subject: [sig-policy] Policy SIG Proposal - HD ratio for IPv4 allocations
> > Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 15:25:03 +1000
> >
> >
> > Dear All,
> >
> > Please find below a policy proposal for the forthcoming Policy SIG, to be
> > presented at APNIC18 in Fiji.
> >
> > The ideas in this proposal were presented at APNIC16 as an informational
> > item ("HD ratio for IPv4") on the agenda. You can find details of the
> > presentation, transcripts of the discussions and minutes at:
> >
> > http://www.apnic.net/meetings/16/programme/sigs/policy.html
> >
> > Your comments and feedback on this proposal are very much appreciated on
> > this mailing list.
> >
> > Best wishes,
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> > APNIC Secretariat <secretariat at apnic dot net>
> > Asia Pacific Network Information Centre (APNIC) Tel: +61-7-3858-3100
> > PO Box 2131 Milton, QLD 4064, Australia Fax: +61-7-3858-3199
> >
> > See you at APNIC 18 Nadi, Fiji, 31 August-3 September 2004
> > www.apnic.net/meetings
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> >
> > prop-020-v001: Application of the HD ratio to IPv4
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> >
> >
> > Proposed by: Paul Wilson and Anne Lord, APNIC Secretariat
> > Version: 1.0
> > Date: 4 August 2004
> >
> >
> > 1 Summary
> > -------------
> >
> > Internet address space is managed hierarchically, by allocation from
> > IANA to RIRs and from RIRs to LIRs (ISPs), and by assignment from LIRs
> > to infrastructure and customer networks. At each level of allocation or
> > assignment some address space may be reserved for future expansion
> > and/or efficient aggregation. As more hierarchical levels are
> > introduced, the overall efficiency of utilisation of the address space
> > will decrease.
> >
> >
> > The HD ratio (Host-Density ratio) has been proposed as a mechanism for
> > measuring the utilisation of addresses within hierarchically-managed
> > Internet address blocks [RFC 3194]. A given HD ratio value corresponds
> > to a percentage utilisation which decreases as the size of the address
> > space grows, thus allowing for the decreasing management efficiency
> > which is described above.
> >
> > The HD ratio is used as the utilisation metric for address space under
> > the current IPv6 management policy [ipv6-address-policy]. According to
> > this policy, a block of IPv6 address space is considered to be utilised
> > when its HD ratio reaches 0.80. This value is said to represent a
> > conservative but manageable figure ("values of 80% or less correspond to
> > comfortable trade-offs between pain and efficiency" [RFC 3194]).
> >
> > This document proposes the use of the HD ratio for measurement of IPv4
> > utilisation, for the same purpose of determining when a given block of
> > address space should be considered as fully utilised. The proposed value
> > of the HD ratio for IPv4 is 0.96.
> >
> >
> > 2 Background and problem
> > ----------------------------
> >
> > Under the current management framework for IPv4 address space
> > [ipv4-address-policy] a block of IPv4 addresses is considered "utilised"
> > when 80% of the addresses within the block have been allocated or
> > assigned. This measure is applied equally for all address blocks,
> > regardless of size.
> >
> > Current policies assume a hierarchical system of address space
> > delegation (from IANA to RIRs to LIRs to customers, as described above),
> > but they make no allowance for hierarchical management within allocated
> > address space. For LIRs in particular, a hierarchical approach is often
> > required for assignment of address space to service elements such as
> > customer networks, individual PoPs, regionalised topologies, and even
> > distinct ISP products. Small network infrastructures may require simple
> > hierarchies, but large infrastructures can require several levels of
> > address space subdivision. These levels of hierarchy are "hidden" in
> > terms of recognition by the current RIR policy framework, and highly
> > constrained by the 80% utilisation requirement. As a result, management
> > of large blocks is often extremely difficult, requiring large internal
> > routing tables and/or frequent renumbering of internal address blocks.
> >
> > One of the goals of the RIR system is to avoid unnecessary depletion of
> > IPv4 address space, and the 80% utilisation requirement is justified on
> > that basis. However address management policies must also be practical
> > in terms of management overhead imposed. It may be argued that when
> > large address spaces are involved, the "80% rule" imposes unreasonable
> > management overheads on an LIR.
> >
> > A more reasonable approach should impose a more uniform degree of
> > management overhead, rather than penalising the holders of large address
> > blocks. This is achievable to some degree by basing utilisation
> > requirements on the HD ratio rather than the fixed percentage-based
> > measure which is in use today.
> >
> >
> > 3 Proposal
> > --------------
> >
> > In recognition of the problems outlined above, it is now proposed to
> > consider replacing the current fixed percentage based utilisation
> > requirement for IPv4 address space with an HD ratio based requirement.
> >
> > 3.1 The HD ratio
> > -----------------
> >
> >
> > According to RFC3194, The HD ratio is calculated as follows:
> >
> > HD = log(U)/log(S)
> >
> > Where:
> >
> > S is the size of the address block concerned, and
> > U is the number of addresses which are utilised.
> >
> > Note: Under the current IPv4 policy framework, addresses are
> > considered to be utilised once they are assigned or sub-allocated
> > by the LIR.
> >
> > 3.2 Selection of HD ratio value
> > --------------------------------
> >
> > The appropriate HD ratio value should be decided on a rational
> > basis. In order to do this, we make certain assumptions about the
> > depth of "hidden" hierarchy involved in managing address blocks of
> > various sizes. If we assume that 80% utilisation is achieved at
> > each level of this assumed hierarchy, then the overall utilisation
> > can be easily calculated.
> >
> > The following table proposes a set of hierarchical depths which may
> > be reasonably expected within address spaces of given sizes. If 80%
> > utilisation is achieved at each hierarchical level, then the
> > overall utilisation will be (0.80 to the power of "n"); and from
> > this value, corresponding HD ratio levels can then be calculated.
> >
> > Size range Depth Utilisation HD ratio
> > (prefix) (n) (0.80**n) (calculated)
> > ---------- ----- ----------- ------------
> >
> > /24 to /20 1 80% .960 to .973
> > /20 to /16 1.5 72% .961 to .970
> > /16 to /12 2 64% .960 to .968
> > /12 to /8 2.5 57.2% .960 to .966
> > /8 to /4 3 51.20% .960 to .966
> >
> > The depths of hierarchy listed above are based on simple
> > assumptions about the likely size and structure of LIRs holding
> > address blocks of these sizes. From the table, a rational HD ratio
> > value may be chosen as 0.96 (a round figure which occurs within
> > most of the above ranges). For this value, the following table
> > gives the utilisation requirement for IPv4 address blocks from /24
> > to /8.
> >
> > IPv4 Addresses Addresses Util%
> > prefix total utilised
> > ------ --------- --------- ------
> >
> > 24 256 205 80.11%
> > 23 512 399 77.92%
> > 22 1024 776 75.79%
> > 21 2048 1510 73.71%
> > 20 4096 2937 71.70%
> > 19 8192 5713 69.74%
> > 18 16384 11113 67.83%
> > 17 32768 21619 65.98%
> > 16 65536 42055 64.17%
> > 15 131072 81811 62.42%
> > 14 262144 159147 60.71%
> > 13 524288 309590 59.05%
> > 12 1048576 602249 57.43%
> > 11 2097152 1171560 55.86%
> > 10 4194304 2279048 54.34%
> > 9 8388608 4433455 52.85%
> > 8 16777216 8624444 51.41%
> >
> > Note: This table provides values for CIDR blocks only, however for
> > non-CIDR blocks the same calculations can be applied to produce
> > equally meaningful results.
> >
> >
> > 4 Implementation
> > -------------------
> >
> > This proposal will impact on procedures for allocation from APNIC to
> > LIRs.
> >
> > 4.1 RIR-LIR procedures
> > -----------------------
> >
> > The impact of the proposal on the RIR-LIR administrative procedures
> > would be to replace the current 80% utilisation requirement, with a
> > 0.96 HD ratio requirement.
> >
> > By way of examples, an LIR holding a total address space equal to a
> > /16 would be able to receive more address space when they had
> > allocated or assigned 64.17% of that space; while an LIR holding a
> > /9 would be able to receive more space when they had allocated or
> > assigned 52.85% of their address space.
> >
> > The HD ratio calculation is trivial, but slightly more complex than
> > the existing 80% calculation. Some APNIC members may in some
> > circumstances require extra assistance, however for those using
> > MyAPNIC, the calculation would be automatic and require no
> > additional effort.
> >
> > 4.2 Implementation timeline
> > ----------------------------
> >
> > If implemented, this policy could be effective within 3 months of the
> > implementation date.
> >
> >
> > 5 References
> > ---------------
> >
> > [RFC 3194] "The Host-Density ratio for address assignment efficiency: An
> > update on the H ratio", A. Durand, C.Huitema, November 2001.
> >
> > [ipv6-address-policy] APNIC document: "IPv6 address allocation and
> > assignment policy" http://www.apnic.net/docs/policy/
> >
> > [ipv4-address-policy] APNIC document: "Policies for IPv4 address space
> > management in the Asia Pacific region" http://www.apnic.net/docs/
> > policy/add-manage-policy.html
> >
> >
>
>
>
>