Thank You for acknowledging that NIR in India shall be formed.
The detailed response of Desi and others are not helping you as your objective is outsourcing of APNIC. This outsourcing, I agree is not being talked by community and that’s why you are finding the discussion void.
Please help the community with your inputs on what was your plan and objectives for NIR, as your statements suggest that you only know and others do not know.Please shower your blessings on the lesser mortals like us too!
While I appreciate your reasoning, the concerns will not be addressed till such time the documents are published and made public.
No one, including me said that NIR in India should not be formed! However, the reasons attributed to it and the comments on the mails represented that there is no clarity on the formation of NIR since there is no evidence of alignment with International community and best practices. Some additional comments even raised doubts if NIR is being looked as a "problem-solving" solution or "community participation" system for India. Added to that are the "emotions" of angular momentums and tendencies of something going off the tangent that allows one to think if there is a defined system for establishing, running, managing and consistently ensuring protection of global resources and procedures through or at NIR in India, if formed.
To rule out all this, all you could do is, establish those simple procedural documents and make things clear. If you intend not to do, for whatever the reason you wish to attribute to such as "criteria", "compliance", etc etc etc... , this discussion is void!
Ofcourse, irrespective of anything here, APNIC can always look at outsourcing or relocating some of the operations to cost effective countries, something that I mentioned two years back too!
Greetings,
Kusumba S
kramvir singh wrote:All your earlier mails have been responded by Desi/ Mutthuswamy / Brajesh and others in details. Looks to me that you have missed out. However please feel free to point out if any concern has not been responded.
NIR is not the solution of all woes but NIR is an opportunity for addressing few of them!
Whenever anyone would do things on their own, the learning’s, importance, implementation are entirely different. Mutthuswamy has also tried to explain the same in his mail. Similarly Desi’s response on routers from Japan.
You need to have your objectives clear. Is it your concern on APNIC revenue or one time your interest for NIR without Govt. endorsement which was dropped by APNIC community.
If it is APNIC's revenue, then it is not only because of India NIR , it is also due to the other 6 NIRs. In Andy’s words “This is no reason to reject NIR for India ”. If it is due to drop of your proposal due to drop of endorsement, this itself is enough for us to understand that NIR is required.
Dear brother, hope your all concerns are addressed. If not, be positive to get it addressed when NIR comes to India!
On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 4:51 PM, kramvir singh <krmvrsngh61 at gmail dot com> wrote:
Good, you have stopped referring yourself as - "we/community". This “I” shall be addressed. The right to publishing the document is with APNIC and they have done it.Please connect to their initial communication and you will have all the details. I am sure your so- claimed point already made, would get further clarity.
On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 4:39 PM, Vebtel - Kusumba S <kusumba at vebtel dot com> wrote:
I think the way I would look at this in the respect of others here, ignore this! Thats not the point to debate with you! The point is already made clear in my earlier mail and if one has clarity on those things, publish the same and thats it! Nothing to talk!
Kusumba S
kramvir singh wrote:Hey, I find the entire response deviating .
In your mail I have noticed that you have referred yourself as “we” and “community” whereas in my understanding I am not able to place you in any community in India….so please do not impose your individual views as community views!
NIXI has applied for NIR so the discussion should be nation or at the most regional only.
I have nowhere referred anything about language , IP, financial constraints etc…. How my understanding the same would help me in understanding which community you come from?
I appreciate your view point on outsourcing from APNIC, but how it gets relevant on this APNIC talk is a surprise for me! In community instead of preaching and patronizing , please contribute in a positive manner.
In the morning I have seen mails of Andy, Gaurav, Naresh and Philip which were very positive and talking about brasstrack.
Community representatives like Desi ,Mutthuswamy and Brajesh are responding well. And hope they also check on your community affiliation.
In brief,which community you belong & referring is still not clear.
Thanks for the only kind word in your mail – Brother!
On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 3:47 PM, Vebtel - Kusumba S <kusumba at vebtel dot com> wrote:
Hey,
This is the exact problem you seem to be having! You only know two countries in entire Asia Pacific region!
On Internet resources that are global resources, one cannot demonstrate "regional" problems and claim a stake in there, no matter even if you were to be from either of the countries you mentioned below!
Further, as long as you learn to talk "community" language, you will not talk problems like "language", "no ip addresses", "financial constraints", "upstream non-operation", etc.... community facilitates you to handle them already and you will known if you are part of that community for the "cause" and not for "need".
So, hope that clarifies, which part of community I belong to brother!
Kusumba S
kramvir singh wrote:Which country are you from , India or Pakistan?
If India, please clarify which Internet community you represent as, you have mentioned in your mail you have been saying “we/community”?
On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 10:29 PM, kramvir singh <krmvrsngh61 at gmail dot com> wrote:
Date: Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 8:19 PM
Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] [Apnic-announce] Application for India NIR - Call for Comments
To: apnic-talk at lists dot apnic dot net
Dear Colleagues,
I think this thread is running no where since the "need" and "cause" are way apart and are not justified. So, as I see, here is what I think the least expected here, ofcourse resulting in what I have explained in "activity 2" here:
Activity 1:
1) The applicant makes the application public here.
2) The applicant demonstrates endorsement and adoption of open policy frame work by doing the following:
i) publish documentation for composition of the proposed company
ii) publish documentation for composition of the proposed board, stake holding, election process of the board, election of the CEO / Chair / Secretary / Treasurer
iii) publish documentation detailing voting policy and voting rights for both members and non members
iv) publish documentation for making policy proposals, policy framework, policy endorsements and policy management
v) publish documentation for decision management cycle, board functioning and member participation
vi) publish process for financial management, financial decision power, funding structure and budget
vii) publish documentation detailing process management such as "resource requests", "change requests", "whois updates", "object management", etc
viii) demonstrate the capability of managing the operations of NIR by showcasing the proposed team structure, roles and functions definitions
ix) publish document detailing the roles of members, non - members, interest groups and community participation
finally,
ix) an undertaking that the resource allocation will be free and open as per the above frame work and the same shall not be inter linked or related to any other compliances and process of either licensing or regulations. The same need to be adopted into the "Articles of Association" and "Memorandum of Association" of the proposed company, which I guess will be an independent section 25 (not for profit) company without stake holding by any other existing companies.
Activity 2:
1) If NIR in India is formed, the revenues of APNIC will be impacted significantly. I am not sure if there is a way out there, but here is what I propose:
i) APNIC should start considering outsourcing some of their operations to least operational-cost countries like India, that helps them to reduce the operational costs including real estate costs, staff costs, communication costs, etc.
ii) APNIC may publish financial projections for next three years with two options:
a) continue operations as-is and the impact with Indian NIR (considering about 70% of the Indian members will move to Indian NIR in next one year)
b) outsource or relocate some of the operations to low-operational cost countries and analyse the impact on the financial situation.
I am confident that the answers for all the above will make the community be assured that things are the way as needed.
Greetings,
Kusumba S
www.linkedin.com/in/kusumba
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