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Dear all,
I'm happy to see the proposal has been updated, I think it'll make discussion easier.
I have some questions:
1/ How much trouble are those ~ 100 prefixes actually causing the community? I'm sure we all agree that its not fair that these entities are announcing space that wasn't assigned / allocated to them; and probably not paying the bill either... and it would be cool if those 100 prefixes can be assigned to elgible end users through the normal process; but that's not worth infinite effort.
1a/ What does APNIC currently do to 'reclaim' or 'clean up' space that APNIC would like to assign to an eligible enduser, but is currently being announce by some unrelated third party? What is today's process?
1b/ Why should it be APNIC itself that makes the ROAs for unassigned space? Perhaps the process should remain as-is: APNIC assigns space to an enduser, and the enduser themselves can create a ROA if they need to 'reclaim' the space. Using ROAs to supress rogue announcements is great, but this mechanism can be used either before and after assignment. I think the answer to this question in part will derive from how we feel about (1) and what APNIC does in (1a).
2/ Has the community considered whether this proposal should be implemented under the current 'production' APNIC TAL, or perhaps a new TAL should be instantiated (let's call it the "APNIC-UNASSIGNED TAL"). An advantage of using a separate TAL is that may address some concerns about the RIRs operational involvement in routing. Operators would need to explicitly opt-in into receiving ROAs for the unassigned/reserved space.
Kind regards,
Job
Dear all,
Since we are in final comment period, I’d like to learn more about the below questions.
Kind regards,
Job
On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 17:32 Job Snijders job@ntt.net wrote:
Dear all,
I'm happy to see the proposal has been updated, I think it'll make discussion easier.
I have some questions:
1/ How much trouble are those ~ 100 prefixes actually causing the community? I'm sure we all agree that its not fair that these entities are announcing space that wasn't assigned / allocated to them; and probably not paying the bill either... and it would be cool if those 100 prefixes can be assigned to elgible end users through the normal process; but that's not worth infinite effort.
1a/ What does APNIC currently do to 'reclaim' or 'clean up' space that APNIC would like to assign to an eligible enduser, but is currently being announce by some unrelated third party? What is today's process?
1b/ Why should it be APNIC itself that makes the ROAs for unassigned space? Perhaps the process should remain as-is: APNIC assigns space to an enduser, and the enduser themselves can create a ROA if they need to 'reclaim' the space. Using ROAs to supress rogue announcements is great, but this mechanism can be used either before and after assignment. I think the answer to this question in part will derive from how we feel about (1) and what APNIC does in (1a).
2/ Has the community considered whether this proposal should be implemented under the current 'production' APNIC TAL, or perhaps a new TAL should be instantiated (let's call it the "APNIC-UNASSIGNED TAL"). An advantage of using a separate TAL is that may address some concerns about the RIRs operational involvement in routing. Operators would need to explicitly opt-in into receiving ROAs for the unassigned/reserved space.
Kind regards,
Job
Hi Job, I raised these questions as part of my presentation and happy to respond here as well.
Regards,
Aftab A. Siddiqui
On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 3:10 AM Job Snijders job@ntt.net wrote:
Dear all,
Since we are in final comment period, I’d like to learn more about the below questions.
Kind regards,
Job
On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 17:32 Job Snijders job@ntt.net wrote:
Dear all,
I'm happy to see the proposal has been updated, I think it'll make discussion easier.
I have some questions:
1/ How much trouble are those ~ 100 prefixes actually causing the community? I'm sure we all agree that its not fair that these entities are announcing space that wasn't assigned / allocated to them; and probably not paying the bill either... and it would be cool if those 100 prefixes can be assigned to elgible end users through the normal process; but that's not worth infinite effort.
As a member of the community and a paying member of APNIC, even a single prefix from unallocated block bothers me because its one entity using the prefix without paying a dime while I pay in full.
1a/ What does APNIC currently do to 'reclaim' or 'clean up' space that APNIC would like to assign to an eligible enduser, but is currently being announce by some unrelated third party? What is today's process?
They certainly have processes in place, which ofcourse not working. This is not the first time I have raised this question. I raised it in multiple meetings and answer was same "we are trying". Here is the transcript from APNIC46. (vogons = bogons) https://conference.apnic.net/46/assets/files/APNC402/20180913_AMM1.txt
=====
Aftab Siddiqui: Gaurab invited me up here, so I can't say no. Just a
quick question on the treasurer's report. I just want to highlight one important thing, and that is related to lost revenue. I can give a few examples, but let's not call names here. There are certain -- I mean, everyone is aware of vogons, Geoff will look at me now. So as per the CiDR report, there are vogons currently advertised in our region and there are certain 49 organisations which have been announcing unallocated address space for more than one year. I just checked it, it is five /22 which is roughly around $3,500 in lost revenue. So what APNIC is planning to do about that? Any actions or anything? The member was de-registered early last year. I'm talking about one-year loss in revenue.
Gaurab Raj Upadhaya: Thank you. I think I'll let Paul handle that.
Paul Wilson: This is something that you have mentioned to us before,
Aftab, and it is something that is being looked at. I'm afraid that for the latest status I'll have to defer to George Kuo, who's approaching the mic.
George Kuo: Thanks, Paul, and thanks, Aftab, for your question. We are
of this announcement activities. Guangliang's team, the registration team, do plan to check it on a very regular basis and will be doing our best to contact all the contact information we have. But if there is anything better we can do, I'm happy to hear information from either Aftab yourself, or anyone here. Thanks will. =====
1b/ Why should it be APNIC itself that makes the ROAs for unassigned space? Perhaps the process should remain as-is: APNIC assigns space to an enduser, and the enduser themselves can create a ROA if they need to 'reclaim' the space. Using ROAs to supress rogue announcements is great, but this mechanism can be used either before and after assignment. I think the answer to this question in part will derive from how we feel about (1) and what APNIC does in (1a).
There are 3 issues with as-is process, 1 - the issues of unallocated address space won't be solved. 2 - member who receive the block might be tainted due to abuse/spam etc. 3 - most importantly, it is against the goal of NRO " https://www.nro.net/about/nro-faq/"
======= What are the goals of the NRO?
The main goals of the NRO are to: Protect the unallocated Internet number resource pool Promote and protect the bottom-up policy development process Act as a focal point for Internet community input into the RIR system =======
2/ Has the community considered whether this proposal should be implemented under the current 'production' APNIC TAL, or perhaps a new TAL should be instantiated (let's call it the "APNIC-UNASSIGNED TAL"). An advantage of using a separate TAL is that may address some concerns about the RIRs operational involvement in routing. Operators would need to explicitly opt-in into receiving ROAs for the unassigned/reserved space.
This is an operational issue and can definitely be considered but this is something we can discuss as part of the SIG which we have requested EC to form to discuss RPKI related issues.
Kind regards,
Job
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