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                        Hey Elvis,
I've just watched the video of the proceedings in Xi'an, and noticed you
stood up and made comments about the the issue.
Since you were there, you heard clearly that leasing is not covered by
APNIC policy.... so I am not sure of your statement "as far as I know,
leasing APNIC issued address space is not currently allowed by the policy.
Why would your customers want to violate the policy and clearly show that
in whois?" since it is clearly incorrect.
PS Adam, I know of at least a dozen of instances of IP Address leasing in
our region.  It is just done off-book, and involves only the lessor and
lessee.
Btw... I am not saying this is good or bad... I am simply stating a
situation.
...Skeeve
*Skeeve Stevens - *eintellego Networks Pty Ltd
skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com ; www.eintellegonetworks.com
Phone: 1300 239 038; Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 ; skype://skeeve
facebook.com/eintellegonetworks ;  http://twitter.com/networkceoau
linkedin.com/in/skeeve
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The Experts Who The Experts Call
Juniper - Cisco - Cloud
On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 12:08 AM, Skeeve Stevens <
skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com> wrote:
...
Elvis,
What policy do you think this falls under?
I think you will find that you are very much incorrect.
Given many (most) ISPs charge for IP addresses for their customers,
especially beyond the normal standard single allocation, I think you would
find that this would fall under leasing.
The difference from charging a client $10 per for a /29, or $500 per month
for a /24 is absolutely no different to leasing someone a /24, /23..... /16
to them which they announce from their own transit or ASN (or you could
lease them an ASN as well).
If you can find a policy which suggest this is against policy, I would
very much like to know:

how it is different to the charging that most providers do today
how APNIC in any way could possibly enforce such a nonsense attempt at

a policy (if it exists)
I've just found Adam Goslings email of August 5th 2013 to Sig Policy which
includes:

Dear Colleagues,
The APNIC Secretariat notes an emerging trend toward interest in IPv4
address leasing / rental with at least one address broker offering such
a service.
This type of sub-leasing arrangement is not covered by current IPv4
addressing policy, registry services, or Member Service systems
including MyAPNIC.
....

This basically states that leasing and sub-leasing are not under APNIC
policy.
...Skeeve
*Skeeve Stevens - *eintellego Networks Pty Ltd
skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com ; www.eintellegonetworks.com
Phone: 1300 239 038; Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 ; skype://skeeve
facebook.com/eintellegonetworks ;  http://twitter.com/networkceoau
linkedin.com/in/skeeve
twitter.com/networkceoau ; blog: www.network-ceo.net
The Experts Who The Experts Call
Juniper - Cisco - Cloud
On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 8:44 PM, Elvis Velea elvis@velea.eu wrote:
...
Hi Skeeve,
as far as I know, leasing APNIC issued address space is not currently
allowed by the policy. Why would your customers want to violate the policy
and clearly show that in whois?
PS: I'm thinking to come up with a policy proposal to permit lease of
address space within APNIC. However, this policy proposal can only be
discussed and (maybe) approved at the next APNIC meeting, in February.
cheers,
elvis
On 9/30/13 12:28 PM, Skeeve Stevens wrote:
...
Hey Byron,
Thanks for the response (only 3 weeks ;-)
I have some people who are looking at leasing address space (in both
directions).
They are wondering that while they lease it, could they run their own
WHOIS server, and relay queries from the lessor of the space to the
lessee.
Make sense?
...Skeeve
*Skeeve Stevens - *eintellego Networks Pty Ltd
skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com <mailto:skeeve@**eintellegonetworks.comskeeve@eintellegonetworks.com>
;
www.eintellegonetworks.com <http://www.**eintellegonetworks.com/http://www.eintellegonetworks.com/
...
Phone: 1300 239 038; Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 ; skype://skeeve
facebook.com/**eintellegonetworkshttp://facebook.com/eintellegonetworks
<http://facebook.com/**eintellegonetworkshttp://facebook.com/eintellegonetworks>
;
<http://twitter.com/**networkceoau http://twitter.com/networkceoau>
linkedin.com/in/**skeeve http://linkedin.com/in/skeeve
http://linkedin.com/in/skeeve**
twitter.com/networkceoau <http://twitter.com/**networkceoauhttp://twitter.com/networkceoau>
; blog:
www.network-ceo.net http://www.network-ceo.net/
The Experts Who The Experts Call
Juniper - Cisco - Cloud
On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 4:56 PM, Byron Ellacott <bje@apnic.net
mailto:bje@apnic.net> wrote:
Hi Skeeve,

Unfortunately this is not technically possible.  The WHOIS protocol
doesn't have a referral or redirection mechanism; you can of course
list your own server in remarks attributes, but there's no standard
approach that lets clients follow this advice to reach another

server.
If you can share the motivation or drivers for the request, perhaps
we can find another way to help solve the problem?

   Byron

--

Byron Ellacott                         email: bje@apnic.net
<mailto:bje@apnic.net>

Technical Director, APNIC              sip: bje@voip.apnic.net
<mailto:bje@voip.apnic.net>

http://www.apnic.net                   phone:         +61 7 3858

3100
______________________________**______________________________**

* Sent by email to save paper. Print only if necessary.

From: Skeeve Stevens <skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com
<mailto:skeeve@**eintellegonetworks.com<skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com>

...
...
Date: Tuesday, 3 September 2013 7:54 AM
To: "apnic-talk@apnic.net <mailto:apnic-talk@apnic.net>"
<apnic-talk@apnic.net <mailto:apnic-talk@apnic.net>>
Subject: [apnic-talk] Chaining Whois Requests

    Hey all,

    Is there anyway, with APNIC, to setup requests to come to your
    own whois server - for your ranges?

    ...Skeeve

    *Skeeve Stevens - *eintellego Networks Pty Ltd
    skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com
    <mailto:skeeve@**eintellegonetworks.com<skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com>>

;
        www.eintellegonetworks.com <http://www.**eintellegonetworks.com/http://www.eintellegonetworks.com/
...
    Phone: 1300 239 038; Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 ; skype://skeeve

    facebook.com/**eintellegonetworks<http://facebook.com/eintellegonetworks>
    <http://facebook.com/**eintellegonetworks<http://facebook.com/eintellegonetworks>>

;
        <http://twitter.com/**networkceoauhttp://twitter.com/networkceoau
...
linkedin.com/in/**skeeve http://linkedin.com/in/skeeve
    <http://linkedin.com/in/skeeve**>

    twitter.com/networkceoau <http://twitter.com/**networkceoau<http://twitter.com/networkceoau>>

;
        blog: www.network-ceo.net http://www.network-ceo.net/
    The Experts Who The Experts Call
    Juniper - Cisco - Cloud

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