Re: [apnic-talk] FW: APNIC EC Election Review Panel
by Sameer Bhagwat
10 Jul
2010
2:10 p.m.
lol even if you wish you will not get any position at apnic. i just said we need someone like you i did not mean you.
rgrds
SB
On Fri, 09 Jul 2010 14:36:47 +0530 wrote
>
I’m not interested in any position in APNIC, I enjoy my current role & responsibility…J
Regards
Desi Valli
From: Sameer Bhagwat [mailto:sameer1982.280@rediffmail.com]
Sent: 09 July 2010 2:05 PM
To: Desi Valli
Cc: apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net
Subject: Re: RE: [apnic-talk] FW: APNIC EC Election Review Panel
Hats off to you Desi Valli. Just the person we need to take apnic forward. we need a dg like you.
rgds
sameer
On Thu, 08 Jul 2010 20:52:44 +0530 wrote
>
Hi Sameer,
The simple reasons for NIR not getting approved are the following:
1.
There are 319 members from India.
a.
63 Associate members.
b.
1 Extra Large
c.
7 Very large
d.
17 Large
e.
32 Medium
f.
79 Small
g.
120 very small.
2.
Assuming that maximum number of IP addresses are availed by each member, (best case scenario)
a.
APNIC earns 1.68 m A$.
3.
Assuming that minimum number of IP addresses are availed by each member, (worst case scenario)
a.
APNIC earns 713K A$.
4.
Approximately, APNIC earns an average of 1.2 million A$ from India today.
5.
Now if NIR is approved, and assuming that all members transfers to NIR,
a.
APNIC loses 14.5% of their members. – India is the second biggest membership country after Australia.
b.
APNIC will earn, best case scenario 343K & in worst case scenario 114K
c.
In simple words, an average of 228K.
6.
This creates a deficit of 1 million A$ from the current “funds”.
7.
Now look at the financials.
a.
Total revenue for 2009 – 11.55m A$.
b.
Total Expenditure for 2009 – 11.35m A$.
c.
Projected expenses for 2010 – 13.02m A$.
d.
Total projected revenue for 2010- 12.87 m A$.
e.
Expected (Planned) deficit – 149K A$.
Note: Please see the cash flow statement in the annual report. Hold on to your chair & breath, while reading such statements..
J
Do you think, APNIC will approve (NIR) another 1 million $ deficit…
J over and above the planned 149K deficit?- Ironically, APNIC has no direct cost in their service
delivery, like you and myself carry in our products and services… Still their expenses are more than their income… I wish, my investors approve such a business model.:-)
See the classifications of expenditure below.
Sno
MA$
% spent
1
Communication expenses
0.16
1.4%
2
Depreciation expense
0.72
6.3%
3
Donation/ sponsorship
0.12
1.1%
4
ICANN contract fees
0.36
3.2%
5
ISIF grant administration expense
0.12
1.1%
6
Meeting and training expenses
0.14
1.2%
7
Membership fees
0.07
0.6%
8
Other operating expenses
1.03
9.0%
9
Professional fees
0.59
5.2%
10
Rent and Outgoings
0.61
5.4%
11
Salaries and personnel expenses
6.03
53.1%
12
Travel expenses
1.40
12.4%
Total Expenses
11.36
Total Revenue
11.55
Operating Income
0.19
1.7%
.
Expenditure on Meeting & “TRAINING” is 1.2% but travel expenses is 12.4%. Grant to ISIF is just 1.1%, where as salaries and personal expenses are 53.1%. As
per the annual report there are 62 staffs who were paid with 6.03mA$. in an average of 97KA$ per year. Do you think everyone is paid this much? Can APNIC be transparent in disclosing salary per staff. Is there any law similar to Right To Information Act of
India, through which such information shall be made available?
Assuming each one of the staffs travelled, the average spent per staff on travel is 22.5KA$ per year. We understand that the cost of staff and other factors
are related to country from where they operate, but Per capita of Australia is only 38,911 (Source IMF). APNIC spends almost 60% of per-capita of Australia on every staff only on TRAVEL. But see how much it spends for TRAINING the community.:-)
A huge 9% is spent on other operating expenses, which carries no clarification on this other. Due to Market recession between 2008 & 09, APNIC REDUCED the
cost of expenditure on grant to ISIF & TRAINING by 19% & 18% respectively, but INCREASED the expenditure of Other operating expenses, salaries & travel by 15%, 10% & 3% respectively. Excellent management plan to support the global economic crisis…
J
Operating income is just 1.7%, because it’s a not for profit organisation…
J
Sameer, trust me, we will get our NIR.
Now let’s discuss about the EC distribution:
To understand this better there is a need to understand the geographic distribution of members, as stated in APNIC annual report.
1.
Eastern Asia put together represents less than 10% of the members- (china is not mentioned separately, hence presuming its less than 1%). – However
representation in EC is 6 (5).
2.
Australia/ New Zealand/ Pacific represents more than 43% of the members – Representation in EC is only 1.
3.
South Asia represents more than 21% - Representation in EC is NIL.
4.
South East Asia represents more than 14% of the members – Representation in EC is NIL.
And we still insist that ECs are representing members. Which member? Simply they represent lesser number of members, but get elected because of number of votes
per member. Do we call it a sincere representation of member community?
>From the above distribution I hope we shall understand the reasons for why recommendations on election reforms are objected. 10% of the members occupy 86%
of the EC “chairs” by misusing an old by-law and trying the best not to change the election by-laws.
1.
One member one vote will bring more representation from Australia, south-Asia and south-east Asia in EC.
2.
Equal representation for APAC region will allow, people from all regions to represent their members.
3.
Fixed terms for ECs will bring in fresh ideas and newer country representation among a particular region.
4.
“Only online vote” system will make APNIC really an internet corporation, also can be more transparent.
Now regarding the period of DG
I think it should be related to performance and not related to fixed period. A DG is like a CEO of an organisation. However, since it is a member driven organisation,
the objectives of the CEO should be transparent and should be made available every year. The objectives (Targets ) should be set with consultation with the members during annual meetings, which should include cost reductions and membership fee reductions.
In the event of a unacceptable deviation from the set targets, actions shall be taken to replace. But what is the objective/target of DG for year 2010?
Conclusion: APNIC is performing the best based on the
current capabilities and qualifications of the management. Is there any room to deliver better? This shall be examined only if new management members are appointed. For which, the by-laws of election should be changed. The current management hasn’t deliver
enough. And their inability and ill-equipped strategies to improve the operations of APNIC, thus reducing the cost of members is very much visible. In such scenario, members who are the employers of the management should take a call on whether there is a
need to reform the by-laws of APNIC, so that APNIC works for the community and not for few member representatives.
Disclaimer: Numbers may be different from actual, as there is no transparent reporting format or dashboard that is made available by APNIC secretariat. As
Mr. Perhar has already demanded such information, I hope such transparency will be made available.
Regards
Desi Valli
From: apnic-talk-bounces@lists.apnic.net [mailto:apnic-talk-bounces@lists.apnic.net]
On Behalf Of Sameer Bhagwat
Sent: 08 July 2010 4:02 PM
To: brajesh.jain@spectranet.in
Cc: apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net
Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] FW: APNIC EC Election Review Panel
On Tue, 06 Jul 2010 15:42:57 +0530 wrote
>
-----Original Message-----
From: Brajesh Jain [mailto:brajesh.jain@spectranet.in]
Sent: 06 July 2010 13:32
To: 'MAEMURA Akinori'; 'terry@terrym.net'; 'Skeeve@eintellego.net'
Cc: 'apnic-talk@apnic.net'
Subject: RE: [apnic-talk] APNIC EC Election Review Panel
Dear friends,
Delaying
NIR formation should surely not be a source of fund.
Dear Brajesh,
I think you Indians are asting your time with NIR. We Pakistanis and Afghanistans are watching your ordeal with APNIC and what a it is a real shame India is still fighting for NIR.
We have decided not to go to apnic for NIR in our countries. We think ITU will help us with a CIR in less time than you get your nir.
Have you looked at the top managment of apnic here
http://www.apnic.net/about-APNIC/meet-the-team
i think there is only one asian in that top managment the rest all look australians and with one from other rir. do you really think apnic is for asia and pacific. to me apnic is for pacific and may be for other rir region.
how can you trust that apnic serves us with just one asian on top management? this is ridiculous isnt it?
arent there asians in this entire asia to qualify on top managment why only apnic hire australians for this or bring from other rir. i think by the time you get your nir we can get a rir form for south asia or for asia. like we have dot asia, we can also have
an rir for asia.
apnic will serve pacific and lets go get an rir for asia that we can better manage. its not late. all those who agree with me email me offline. i have already did quite a lot research in this area and i got good contacts in ITU i think we can do this.
do not trust apnic anymore for your nir. apnic is only there to take our money and enjoy.
regards
sameer
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rgrds
SB
On Fri, 09 Jul 2010 14:36:47 +0530 wrote
>
I’m not interested in any position in APNIC, I enjoy my current role & responsibility…J
Regards
Desi Valli
From: Sameer Bhagwat [mailto:sameer1982.280@rediffmail.com]
Sent: 09 July 2010 2:05 PM
To: Desi Valli
Cc: apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net
Subject: Re: RE: [apnic-talk] FW: APNIC EC Election Review Panel
Hats off to you Desi Valli. Just the person we need to take apnic forward. we need a dg like you.
rgds
sameer
On Thu, 08 Jul 2010 20:52:44 +0530 wrote
>
Hi Sameer,
The simple reasons for NIR not getting approved are the following:
1.
There are 319 members from India.
a.
63 Associate members.
b.
1 Extra Large
c.
7 Very large
d.
17 Large
e.
32 Medium
f.
79 Small
g.
120 very small.
2.
Assuming that maximum number of IP addresses are availed by each member, (best case scenario)
a.
APNIC earns 1.68 m A$.
3.
Assuming that minimum number of IP addresses are availed by each member, (worst case scenario)
a.
APNIC earns 713K A$.
4.
Approximately, APNIC earns an average of 1.2 million A$ from India today.
5.
Now if NIR is approved, and assuming that all members transfers to NIR,
a.
APNIC loses 14.5% of their members. – India is the second biggest membership country after Australia.
b.
APNIC will earn, best case scenario 343K & in worst case scenario 114K
c.
In simple words, an average of 228K.
6.
This creates a deficit of 1 million A$ from the current “funds”.
7.
Now look at the financials.
a.
Total revenue for 2009 – 11.55m A$.
b.
Total Expenditure for 2009 – 11.35m A$.
c.
Projected expenses for 2010 – 13.02m A$.
d.
Total projected revenue for 2010- 12.87 m A$.
e.
Expected (Planned) deficit – 149K A$.
Note: Please see the cash flow statement in the annual report. Hold on to your chair & breath, while reading such statements..
J
Do you think, APNIC will approve (NIR) another 1 million $ deficit…
J over and above the planned 149K deficit?- Ironically, APNIC has no direct cost in their service
delivery, like you and myself carry in our products and services… Still their expenses are more than their income… I wish, my investors approve such a business model.:-)
See the classifications of expenditure below.
Sno
MA$
% spent
1
Communication expenses
0.16
1.4%
2
Depreciation expense
0.72
6.3%
3
Donation/ sponsorship
0.12
1.1%
4
ICANN contract fees
0.36
3.2%
5
ISIF grant administration expense
0.12
1.1%
6
Meeting and training expenses
0.14
1.2%
7
Membership fees
0.07
0.6%
8
Other operating expenses
1.03
9.0%
9
Professional fees
0.59
5.2%
10
Rent and Outgoings
0.61
5.4%
11
Salaries and personnel expenses
6.03
53.1%
12
Travel expenses
1.40
12.4%
Total Expenses
11.36
Total Revenue
11.55
Operating Income
0.19
1.7%
.
Expenditure on Meeting & “TRAINING” is 1.2% but travel expenses is 12.4%. Grant to ISIF is just 1.1%, where as salaries and personal expenses are 53.1%. As
per the annual report there are 62 staffs who were paid with 6.03mA$. in an average of 97KA$ per year. Do you think everyone is paid this much? Can APNIC be transparent in disclosing salary per staff. Is there any law similar to Right To Information Act of
India, through which such information shall be made available?
Assuming each one of the staffs travelled, the average spent per staff on travel is 22.5KA$ per year. We understand that the cost of staff and other factors
are related to country from where they operate, but Per capita of Australia is only 38,911 (Source IMF). APNIC spends almost 60% of per-capita of Australia on every staff only on TRAVEL. But see how much it spends for TRAINING the community.:-)
A huge 9% is spent on other operating expenses, which carries no clarification on this other. Due to Market recession between 2008 & 09, APNIC REDUCED the
cost of expenditure on grant to ISIF & TRAINING by 19% & 18% respectively, but INCREASED the expenditure of Other operating expenses, salaries & travel by 15%, 10% & 3% respectively. Excellent management plan to support the global economic crisis…
J
Operating income is just 1.7%, because it’s a not for profit organisation…
J
Sameer, trust me, we will get our NIR.
Now let’s discuss about the EC distribution:
To understand this better there is a need to understand the geographic distribution of members, as stated in APNIC annual report.
1.
Eastern Asia put together represents less than 10% of the members- (china is not mentioned separately, hence presuming its less than 1%). – However
representation in EC is 6 (5).
2.
Australia/ New Zealand/ Pacific represents more than 43% of the members – Representation in EC is only 1.
3.
South Asia represents more than 21% - Representation in EC is NIL.
4.
South East Asia represents more than 14% of the members – Representation in EC is NIL.
And we still insist that ECs are representing members. Which member? Simply they represent lesser number of members, but get elected because of number of votes
per member. Do we call it a sincere representation of member community?
>From the above distribution I hope we shall understand the reasons for why recommendations on election reforms are objected. 10% of the members occupy 86%
of the EC “chairs” by misusing an old by-law and trying the best not to change the election by-laws.
1.
One member one vote will bring more representation from Australia, south-Asia and south-east Asia in EC.
2.
Equal representation for APAC region will allow, people from all regions to represent their members.
3.
Fixed terms for ECs will bring in fresh ideas and newer country representation among a particular region.
4.
“Only online vote” system will make APNIC really an internet corporation, also can be more transparent.
Now regarding the period of DG
I think it should be related to performance and not related to fixed period. A DG is like a CEO of an organisation. However, since it is a member driven organisation,
the objectives of the CEO should be transparent and should be made available every year. The objectives (Targets ) should be set with consultation with the members during annual meetings, which should include cost reductions and membership fee reductions.
In the event of a unacceptable deviation from the set targets, actions shall be taken to replace. But what is the objective/target of DG for year 2010?
Conclusion: APNIC is performing the best based on the
current capabilities and qualifications of the management. Is there any room to deliver better? This shall be examined only if new management members are appointed. For which, the by-laws of election should be changed. The current management hasn’t deliver
enough. And their inability and ill-equipped strategies to improve the operations of APNIC, thus reducing the cost of members is very much visible. In such scenario, members who are the employers of the management should take a call on whether there is a
need to reform the by-laws of APNIC, so that APNIC works for the community and not for few member representatives.
Disclaimer: Numbers may be different from actual, as there is no transparent reporting format or dashboard that is made available by APNIC secretariat. As
Mr. Perhar has already demanded such information, I hope such transparency will be made available.
Regards
Desi Valli
From: apnic-talk-bounces@lists.apnic.net [mailto:apnic-talk-bounces@lists.apnic.net]
On Behalf Of Sameer Bhagwat
Sent: 08 July 2010 4:02 PM
To: brajesh.jain@spectranet.in
Cc: apnic-talk@lists.apnic.net
Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] FW: APNIC EC Election Review Panel
On Tue, 06 Jul 2010 15:42:57 +0530 wrote
>
-----Original Message-----
From: Brajesh Jain [mailto:brajesh.jain@spectranet.in]
Sent: 06 July 2010 13:32
To: 'MAEMURA Akinori'; 'terry@terrym.net'; 'Skeeve@eintellego.net'
Cc: 'apnic-talk@apnic.net'
Subject: RE: [apnic-talk] APNIC EC Election Review Panel
Dear friends,
Delaying
NIR formation should surely not be a source of fund.
Dear Brajesh,
I think you Indians are asting your time with NIR. We Pakistanis and Afghanistans are watching your ordeal with APNIC and what a it is a real shame India is still fighting for NIR.
We have decided not to go to apnic for NIR in our countries. We think ITU will help us with a CIR in less time than you get your nir.
Have you looked at the top managment of apnic here
http://www.apnic.net/about-APNIC/meet-the-team
i think there is only one asian in that top managment the rest all look australians and with one from other rir. do you really think apnic is for asia and pacific. to me apnic is for pacific and may be for other rir region.
how can you trust that apnic serves us with just one asian on top management? this is ridiculous isnt it?
arent there asians in this entire asia to qualify on top managment why only apnic hire australians for this or bring from other rir. i think by the time you get your nir we can get a rir form for south asia or for asia. like we have dot asia, we can also have
an rir for asia.
apnic will serve pacific and lets go get an rir for asia that we can better manage. its not late. all those who agree with me email me offline. i have already did quite a lot research in this area and i got good contacts in ITU i think we can do this.
do not trust apnic anymore for your nir. apnic is only there to take our money and enjoy.
regards
sameer
Message sent using India’s leading Hosted Microsoft Exchange service.
For details visit http://net4.in/net4app/aspx/Exchange/exchangeIntro.aspx
Please consider the environment before printing.
Message sent using India’s leading Hosted Microsoft Exchange service.
For details visit http://net4.in/net4app/aspx/Exchange/exchangeIntro.aspx
Please consider the environment before printing.
Activity Summary
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Participants (1)
- Sameer Bhagwat
